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scrawny pup

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Put him on Orijen Large breed Puppy. He needs more meat in his diet and the fish based food is not doing it. Also, 4-4.5 cups per day is way too little for a growing english Mastiff. Perhaps your vet meant to say 4-cups twice a day ? Your pup needs at least 6-8 cups a day min !!! And dry Orijen Large Breed Pup , if his stool stays too loose mix 75% Lifes Abundance 25% Orijen.... Wathc him fill out the right way !

did you read the whole thread? Seriously, 8 cups a day is about twice the recommended amount for Orijen's LBP, not to mention a HUMUNGUS number of calories, plus its on the mid-upper range of calcium/phos range so you'd be giving him WAY to much calcium/phos. Are you trying to force him to grow to fast??
 
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dg2

Member
did you read the whole thread? Seriously, 8 cups a day is about twice the recommended amount for Orijen's LBP, not to mention a HUMUNGUS number of calories, plus its on the mid-upper range of calcium/phos range so you'd be giving him WAY to much calcium/phos. Are you trying to force him to grow to fast??

I did and 8 cups per day for an english mastiff puppy is the right amount of food. It is also in line with the Orijen reccomendations for an active puppy. My EM ate two 4 cups servings per day and he is in perfct shape, still see rib outline at 200lbs. Certainly, if the pup is in a cage all day and gets no excercise then yes, give less. The percentage of calcium/phos is perfect fpr a growing pup.... The dog food is the best in the world and this guy has a scrawny pup that is clearly NOT being feed correctly. I think an Orijen Large Breed puppy will get him filled out in no time..:)

And, no I am not trying to make grow too fast and that entire subject has gotten out of hand. I have owned Giant and large breeds for decades and NEVER had an issue with a dogs joints or other problems from growth.
 
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dg2

Member
You are correct, the age of the older pups can go to 7.5 cups per Orijen. Nut , these are only suggestions ! My EM breeder has 35 years of EM breeding and she said it best, if the puppy is still starving after a feeding , feed him more ! They defiently do not over eat in my expereince .
1½ - 3 Mo.
CUPS / GR
3 - 9 Mo.
CUPS / GR
9 -14 Mo.
CUPS / GR
14 - 19 Mo.
CUPS / GR
19 - 24 Mo.
CUPS / GR
25- 30 kg /
55 - 65 lb
1¾-2 / 210-2403-3¾ / 360-4504-4¼ / 480-510ADULTADULT
30- 40 kg /
65 - 85 lb
2-2¼ / 240-2703¾-4½ / 450-5404¼-5 / 510-600ADULTADULT
40- 60 kg /
85 -130 lb
2¼-2½ / 270-3004½-5½ / 540-6605-5¾ / 600-6904-4¾ / 480-570ADULT
60- 80 kg /
30 -175 lb
2½-3 / 300-3605½-6 / 660-7205¾-7 / 690-8404¾-5½ / 570-6605¼-6¾ / 630-810
80-110 kg /
175 -240 lb
3-3¼ / 360-3906-6¼ / 720-7507-7½ / 840-9005½-7½ / 660-9006¾-7 / 810-840

feeding-bottom.png
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Ok, first off you were telling the OP to feed their 4 month old pup 8 or 9 cups of food a day. We're not talking an older pup here.

2nd: just because he WILL eat that much doesn't make it good for him. To much calcium will cause his bones to grow faster, AND THATS BAD. They most definetly WILL over eat.
 
I have now entered into a land of confusion after reading the last few posts.
I just bought earthborne great plains and ill see how that goes.
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
I have now entered into a land of confusion after reading the last few posts.
I just bought earthborne great plains and ill see how that goes.

Just disregard it haha. Ruth was correct :) Maybe trying a different protein which Great Plains is will help. Definitely keep us posted :)
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
I have now entered into a land of confusion after reading the last few posts.
I just bought earthborne great plains and ill see how that goes.

We're arguing a totally different food, and as such have derailed the thread. I'll stop now. But it is an example of how much difference there is between foods. Sorry to confuse you!
 

dg2

Member
I have now entered into a land of confusion after reading the last few posts.
I just bought earthborne great plains and ill see how that goes.

My friend, go to Orijen.com and watch the video and read the White Papers on the study of proteins/calcium/phos. I will say no more other then my Mastiff looks amazing and in the words of my Vet " whatever your feeding him keep doing it because he is the best looking Mastiff I have ever seen"...

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------

BTW- just to make sure I was not forgetting something when my EM was 4 month. Below is a feeding table from a highly regarded EM breeder. Please take a look at the serving sizes. These are Giant breed dogs and when young and growing they will eat more then when they are large. Ruth, a 4 month old pup can and should have at leat 8 cups of food per day !!!
Age of Pup Daily Amount Type Frequency
4-8 weeks 3-4 cups Moistened & Dry 3-4 times/day

8-12 weeks 4-6 cups Moistened & Dry 3-4 times/day

12-16 weeks 5-7 cups Dry 3-4 times/day

16-24 weeks 6-8 cups Dry 2-3 times/day
(4 to 6 months)

6-18 months 8-12 cups Dry 2 times/day
 

dg2

Member
BTW- just to make sure I was not forgetting something when my EM was 4 month. Below is a feeding table from a highly regarded EM breeder. Please take a look at the serving sizes. These are Giant breed dogs and when young and growing they will eat more then when they are large. Ruth, a 4 month old pup can and should have at leat 8 cups of food per day !!!
Age of Pup Daily Amount Type Frequency
4-8 weeks 3-4 cups Moistened & Dry 3-4 times/day

8-12 weeks 4-6 cups Moistened & Dry 3-4 times/day

12-16 weeks 5-7 cups Dry 3-4 times/day

16-24 weeks 6-8 cups Dry 2-3 times/day
(4 to 6 months)

6-18 months 8-12 cups Dry 2 times/day
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
Just because someone is a breeder doesn't mean they know best. I take and dispense advice from a canine nutritionist who went to school for nutrition and who specializes in large and giant breed dogs. If you want to spend the money to be shelling out 8+ cups of Orijen a day go right ahead but don't be pushing it onto other people please. It is absolutely crucial that they don't eat that much so young because their bones and joints can't handle it. Feeding that much is really putting them at risk for issues later in life.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
BTW- just to make sure I was not forgetting something when my EM was 4 month. Below is a feeding table from a highly regarded EM breeder. Please take a look at the serving sizes. These are Giant breed dogs and when young and growing they will eat more then when they are large. Ruth, a 4 month old pup can and should have at leat 8 cups of food per day !!!
Age of Pup Daily Amount Type Frequency
4-8 weeks 3-4 cups Moistened & Dry 3-4 times/day

8-12 weeks 4-6 cups Moistened & Dry 3-4 times/day

12-16 weeks 5-7 cups Dry 3-4 times/day

16-24 weeks 6-8 cups Dry 2-3 times/day
(4 to 6 months)

6-18 months 8-12 cups Dry 2 times/day

And did you ask WHAT food they recommended on that schedule?? Each and every food is different. What makes up a serving size of one does not make up a serving size of another! Some of the cheap crap kibble might just require that sort of feeding schedule for a giant pup!
 

Robtouw

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't change his food unless he is extremely ribby. If his coat is shiney, healthy, and he has a nice filled out look without ribs promently showing ( you want to see that last one while playing and moving around but not all of them all of the time) I would continue to feed him on his regular schedule. Alot of pups start out small and take longer to fill out. All pups grow differently, some take longer then others. My last OEM was the runt of the litter and always looked small in comparison to his siblings, but in the end his adult weight was comparible to theirs. On his growth chart he was always about 10-15lbs behind his brothers. You could add some fresh meat, yogurt, egg, veggies, etc to his food to give him a calorie boost without worrying about his intake of supplements and vitamins that are a part of his feed. The recommended amount on the bag is based on calories and ingredients such as vitamins, calcium and protein that is in the kibble. Every dog is different and every food product is different. I have always taken into consideration the recommended amount on the bag but have never had a pup that i could actually follow the guidelines with, they always seemed to need or want more.
 

dg2

Member
Just because someone is a breeder doesn't mean they know best. I take and dispense advice from a canine nutritionist who went to school for nutrition and who specializes in large and giant breed dogs. If you want to spend the money to be shelling out 8+ cups of Orijen a day go right ahead but don't be pushing it onto other people please. It is absolutely crucial that they don't eat that much so young because their bones and joints can't handle it. Feeding that much is really putting them at risk for issues later in life.

First of all I am NOT suggesting over feeding a Giant breed puppy. Secondly my breeder of 35 years experience with EM is a NUTRTIONIST !!!!! Giant breeds like a 5-6month old Mastiff can and should have at least 7-8 cups of Orijen puppy. Risk on these forums is everybody is an expert but at the end of the day a EM should not be scrawny
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Did we say anywhere that scrawny was good? And where are we talking about a 5-6month old pup? The OP's pup is 4 months. Not that 8cups of Orijen isn't to much for most 5-6month olds too unless they come from a seriously huge line. Over feeding is as bad as underfeeding. The potential damage is different, and may take longer to show, but that doesn't make it better.
 

dg2

Member
Maybe I have been lucky but my Greater Swiss Mountain Dog, Saint Bernard, Rottweiler , Samoyed and of course English Mastiff never over eat. If I put too little in their dish I know I need to add more when they lick the dish and bark for more. If I put too much food in they simply do not eat all of it and if I feed them and they are not hungry they wont touch a drop. So, in my expereince with giant and large breed dogs I have never seen one of them over eat. That said, I know all dogs are different...
 

raechiemay

Well-Known Member
I don't think I could ever get Duchess to eat 8 cups of food in one day. It's enough of a fight to get her to eat the 5-6 cups she gets now. And I think she is at a good weight given her age & size. She's not overly scrawny looking, but she is definitely not ribby by any means. She's almost 6 months old about 23.25 inches tall, way behind the standard sized female EM at this age & weighs about 60 lbs. BUT like I said I think she looks good for her size. I definitely think she's a slow grower & puts on average about 2-4 lbs per week.
 

m0rg4n

Well-Known Member
Mira (1/2 EM 1/4 Fila 1/4 Newf) was 45 pounds at about 17 weeks, feeding 4 cups of Earthborn Coastal Catch, split into 3 meals a day for the last month or so. She's growing a steady average of 3 lbs. a week. I'm not worried about her being small compared to other mastiffs, she'll grow into her own in her own time and if she only ends up being a small giant instead of a massive one, that may not be such a bad thing. =)
 
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