Proteins in Raw Diet

[tmricciuto]

Hi all -

I have been going through the threads and see a lot of reference to introducing at least 4 proteins. I can pretty cheaply get my hands on chicken at Costco, Pork will be more expensive but I can get beef hearts for $2.19/lb. I'm trying to do this economically and thinking that I can do turkey during the holidays and just really stock up and I can get Lamb/Duck necks through Suzies for a decent price (duck $1.52/lb and Lamb $3/lb).

My question is, do you try to mix up the proteins all during the week so it's pretty even or could the main foods be chicken/turkey with some necks put in for the difference?

I'm going to take DennaMom advice and start them on chicken backs, which I can get for $0.79/lb and I would like for something like this or the other low cost options to be the staple for bone but I'm not sure how to mix it up and stay on a good budget.

 

[DDSK]

Not sure where you live or what type of markets you have there but I find I can get pork products very cheap at Asian markets. I don't feed my girls raw but I do like the variety of cheap cuts of pork I can find at these markets.

 

[DennasMom]

Did I say start on chicken backs somewhere? (my memory is terrible)
Hopefully not 'just' chicken backs... that's really high in bone (like 50%), so you're hopefully adding in some bone-less meat with the backs, too. Even just starting, I'd be wary of doing too much bone - due to constipation potential.

My "base" diet is ground beef & beef green tripe at breakfast and pork shoulder with whole frozen sardines for dinner (keeping my fingers crossed the sardines remain healthy and productive off the CA coast).
We add in lamb liver and kidney for organs (in breakfast).
Right now we also have venison 'trim' and buffalo heart for variety (dinner).

We don't do much, if any chicken. I keep trying it, but when I do, Denna has one ear that gets really goopy.
We did turkey necks for bone recently, and I think those were ok (from the ear perspective).
"Cheap" turkey around the holidays is likely to be high sodium - so check for <100mg/4oz serving.

I've heard some people rotate proteins weekly, some monthly... and some (like me) mix them together within meals, daily.
I think as long as you don't stick to the same single protein for more than a few months, it counts as the "balance over time". I think what the variety is helping with are some trace minerals and amino acid profiles to fill in gaps. Also, the body is SO good at adaptation, that if you feed the same thing ALL the time, you potentially can Create an allergy to that protein... so mixing things up keeps the system on its toes and helps avoid allergic reactions.

 

[BAMCB]

I stick to chicken backs and saw scraps for most of the bone. As for meat check out local butchers. I have a great resource with getting to know them. They will call me when cleaning out the freezer for the older meat(still good!) but too old to sell at full price to customers. They also carry odd items like pork fries(testicles) sweetbreads, tongue, liver, kidney, hearts etc for very low costs. I will add some heart, tongue and pork fries in small portions to help stretch the meat. The liver I get is a huge bag of livers for really cheap. It's a pita to have to go home and divvy up in smaller packages but worth it for the price it ends up being per week. I have gotten about 25lbs of deer from the last hunting season for $2 per pound which has been great for more variety. My best investments have been a larger stand up freezer to stock up when there is an awesome sale and just recently a hand crank grinder. It made such easy work for dividing up the large quantities and packing into smaller portions. Also, since I ground up all the meat(only way Chica will eat it so just routine now) it is easy to add in the extras. I try to average $1.50 per pound so grinding in some cheaper cuts allows me to add the more variety.

 

[tmricciuto]

Thanks all. I'm thinking I can get some of the exotic offal from Suzy's to keep up the variety. I'm sure I'm just over thinking this. I'll also reach out to some butchers at the grocery store as we don't have many actual butchers close by.


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[tmricciuto]

Thanks all. I'm thinking I can get some of the exotic offal from Suzy's to keep up the variety. I'm sure I'm just over thinking this. I'll also reach out to some butchers at the grocery store as we don't have many actual butchers close by.

Thanks.


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[TricAP]

I stick to chicken backs and saw scraps for most of the bone. As for meat check out local butchers. I have a great resource with getting to know them. They will call me when cleaning out the freezer for the older meat(still good!) but too old to sell at full price to customers. They also carry odd items like pork fries(testicles) sweetbreads, tongue, liver, kidney, hearts etc for very low costs. I will add some heart, tongue and pork fries in small portions to help stretch the meat. The liver I get is a huge bag of livers for really cheap. It's a pita to have to go home and divvy up in smaller packages but worth it for the price it ends up being per week. I have gotten about 25lbs of deer from the last hunting season for $2 per pound which has been great for more variety. My best investments have been a larger stand up freezer to stock up when there is an awesome sale and just recently a hand crank grinder. It made such easy work for dividing up the large quantities and packing into smaller portions. Also, since I ground up all the meat(only way Chica will eat it so just routine now) it is easy to add in the extras. I try to average $1.50 per pound so grinding in some cheaper cuts allows me to add the more variety.

BAMCB - are you grinding the neck for her too? Angus is back to snarfing/gobbling/not chewing again - he's thrown up some pretty hefty bone fragments so I'm considering grinding also. BUT none of the commercial one wil honor the warranty if bones are ground.

tmriccuto - be VERY careful and slowly introduce a new protein. Just one source for the first month worked well for us. Added the 2nd for another month - just a little bit to start and by the end of the month switching between the 2 sources. Going slow will be better for your dog and you - too much too soon means nasty poops to clean up. Be extra careful about the organ meats. They are very rich so not doing the entire 10% until they get used to it. I have one of my 3 that can only tolerate about 5%, another that needs closer to 15% bone to have a firm stool and the big monster that can't tolerate pork at all. Waiting a month in between adding proteins gives you a chance to see if the will tolerate it until you work up to the 4 or more.

Our EM couldn't tolerate chicken in kibble but has done fine on it raw. It really depends on the dog and because it is usually less expensive many people do use it as their base diet. Bones are easier to chew. Also watch your dogs eating style - 1 have 2 dainty eaters and one who enhales his food and there for has been known to regurgitate bone fragments that irritate him.

2x that about making the acquaintance of your local butcher or someone that does farm processing (on site slaughter) they can also be a great source of organ meats for little to no expense. Grocery store meat department managers can also be a good resource for items that can't be sold for human consumption or are at or slightly past expiration - fine for dogs if they have been frozen all along.

Just keep in mind that all of this is over time, not each day or even each week.

Have you looked into any raw co-ops in your area? It does mean having freezer space to really take advantage of the specials but freezers can be found very economically at scratch and dent outlets or on Craigslist. We picked up our 2nd one for $100 at a major retailers outlet just because it had a big dent along one side.

 

[tmricciuto]

I have looked at the coop and it goes through Suzy's. I can get some good deals through them but still think I can do better.


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[BAMCB]

We tried grinding turkey necks and it broke the hand grinder. I use saw scraps in the mix and add a chicken back with the puppy's dinner. The girls are good with just the saw scraps. They get chew time almost daily on large bones.

 

[tmricciuto]

Well I've read that chicken necks are too small for mastiffs, I don't plan to grind, but I've heard that turkey and lamb necks are great. I'll probably try the chicken and see how they do but don't want to buy a 40lb case to have a ton left over.


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[Liz_M]

I'm lucky to live in an area where chicken (quarters on sale at .29/lb) and various pork cuts (under a dollar on sale) is plentiful and cheap. So between those two proteins, that's probably about half what I feed raw. I also get saw meat and sometimes beef/chicken hearts from a butcher near me. The only turkey I feed is turkey tails (mostly fat, gristle and some bone) and gizzards. I do not trust turkey bones.

From the raw purveyor, I get beef organ mix, tripe, and sometimes goat, duck, rabbit, lamb etc. Ocasionally I get deer meat from people I know who hunt. So my feeding regimen is varied throughout the week or month depending what's on hand and what's on sale.

I agree chicken backs are awfully boney and fine, but should be balanced "over time" with meaty meat.


I've fed mostly raw for 16 years now to many dogs. The only negative incidents were seeing turkey bone shards in poop (why I don't feed turkey, mostly) and dire rear plus paint-peeling gas from wild deer, which I assume is from parasites in wild-caught game, so I feed that infrequently.
Chicken necks and feet are fun treats for big dogs. I don't know how they can be "too small?"

 

[tmricciuto]

I can actually get beef heart pretty inexpensive through Suzy's so can use that for one of my proteins at a really reasonable price, I think for a case it breaks down to .79/lb but I don't have my spreadsheet handy. I can also get whole chickens and quarters for under $1/lb at Costco pretty much all the time. So those will probably be my staples. I'm going to check the prices on pork butt and shoulder today when I go. Between that and supplementing with the case products from Suzy's and sale items I should be able to make this work. I can also get chicken breasts for under $1 at Costco. I will check the sodium levels today.

I also like the idea of pulling or putting aside a week's worth of food at a time. I think that will be much easier to calculate the ratios than to do it daily and I can use the spreadsheet Dennasmom provided to put something together.

Do you feed the skin or take that off? Probably no skin in the beginning but at some point?


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[Liz_M]

That's an excellent price on beef heart; I've never gotten it that cheap.


I don't remove skin ever. But when I get the saw meat I feed it sparingly and sometimes toss out the big pieces that are pure fat.

 

[TricAP]

I want to know where you're at to get those prices at Costco - ours aren't that good. wish they were. I think $1.30 is the best they get at Costco.

They only way to know if skin off or on is to try it and then watch the poop. You will become an expert on it. Really depends on the dog. Some can tolerate more and others less. Almost all chickens in the US are treated with an antibiotic rinse when processed. It stays on the skin. Soaking the chicken in warm water can help get rid of it and take out some of the sodium that is also used to keep commercially processed chicken "juicy." If you are worried about it taking the skin off does get rid of most of it and rinsing to take off the layer of "slime" gets the rest.

 

[tmricciuto]

I'm going to Costco today and taking pics of the prices. I live in AZ and I'll post them. I'm going off of memory but I know the whole chickens are $.99/lb.


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[TricAP]

I'm going to Costco today and taking pics of the prices. I live in AZ and I'll post them. I'm going off of memory but I know the whole chickens are $.99/lb.


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Costco on a Saturday! Have fun!

 

[tmricciuto]

Ok, so below are the prices at Costco. I'm not going to get the Chicken wings at Costco because they have too much sodium. I did find some low sodium quarters at the local grocery that I can pick up when they are on sale.

Boneless Pork Loin $1.99/lb
Pork Sirloin Tip Roast $1.79/lb
Chicken Thigh Meat $1.99/lb
Chicken Thigh Fryers $0.99/lb
Whole Chicken Fryers $0.99/lb
Boneless/Skinless Breasts $2.99/lb
Ground Beef 88%/12% $3.49/lb


So now I can compare this to what I can get at the grocery and Suzy's and see where the best deal is

 

[tmricciuto]

And I was wrong, the beef heart were $2.19/lb