Proposed Diet:

Discussion in 'Health & Nutritional Care' started by Marrowshard, Jun 9, 2011.

  1. ElJayBee

    ElJayBee New Member

    hopefully it was just the antibiotic causing her reaction. or it could have been the rice. rice is a grain. a lot of dogs are allergic to grains. and IMO, starchy carbs like rice and potatoes are completely unnecessary in the diet. if you really want to add veggies in, try an uncooked (cooking removes many of the nutrients you are trying to add) broccoli and carrot paste (you can make it with your blender). They contain most of the nutrients found in veggies. also things like berries (blueberries, raspberries, blackberries) are fine to add on occasion (or you can add a few of them to your broccoli/carrot paste) to keep things balanced if that's what you're concerned about. other than that, you need to stick with strictly meats (which includes both raw meaty bones like the chicken quarters you're feeding, AND organ meat once a week or so). good luck in your quest to find something that works for you!
  2. Marrowshard

    Marrowshard New Member

    We nixed rice completely from her diet, and since we ran out of venison we were forced to switch to fish. She did fine on the venison, as she's doing on the fish, and she loves getting her portion of sweet potato. She's now more-or-less back to square one, when we originally took her to the vet there was a lot of black gunk in her ears that's since cleaned up with the combo of antibiotics and diet change. She no longer has any of the hives or facial swellings we had before and her ears are no longer swollen shut. It appears to have been mostly the antibiotics, but her skin's not as good as it should be. She's still showing some pale pink spots near her ears and on her belly. They aren't itchy, weepy, or red and they don't seem to be bothering her at all. That's about what her skin was like when we started all this, so it might actually be something non-food related (since by now we should have nailed whatever it was; I highly doubt she's allergic to smelt, salmon, or sweet potatoes). We took the blankets out of her kennel (she'd been throwing them out to sleep on the cooler floor anyhow) in case it was detergent, but it's entirely possible it's "hay fever". Can dogs be allergic to cats? Would this manifest as a respiratory allergy or the skin-based one I'm seeing?

    We're going to keep her on the fish and potatoes (or garden veggies, that's an excellent suggestion!) for now since she's enjoying it. Her poops are almost odorless and we haven't noticed a single fart which is a wonderful side-effect! She has a little bit of fishy breath, but her teeth aren't dirty and it's definitely not the "low-tide" fish breath my cats have LOL.

  3. PuppyPaws

    PuppyPaws New Member

    Marrow, I have been feeding raw for about a year and a half. I primarily feed an assortment of Chicken quarter or fryer thighs, canned fish (mackeral), hamburger and occassionaly turkey and eggs with shells. I have tried feed chicken livers but for some reason all my dogs turn their noses up to the liver. They do like chicken gizzards though. Sometimes we give them chicken necks too. It is a variety but not the largest variety out there. We live in rural MS. If I notice that they might be getting constipated, I give them a table spoon or two of canned pumpkin. This has helped. They love the diet.

    I have noticed several benefits from feeding Raw:
    Marrow, my Pitt-Mix, Willow, used to have horrible allergies (reminded me of what you are dealing with). She even had to take an allergy shot once a week. Since going to raw, her allergies have dramatically been reduced. She only takes a shot every now and then if she starts with a flare up usually during season changes. Her coat has been healthier and very shiny. For the longest time she had a horrible red and at time raw spot on her neck. We battled staph there on several occassions. Now, that place is no longer red and her fur has almost completely grown back.

    Hershey, my english setter mix, has epilepsy. I have heard raw helps with seizures. I can't say for certain that I have seen and definate effects from this as we still give him phenobarbital every day. Prior to starting him on Raw, he was prone to constipation. I think that is partly due to the phenobarb, though. But once it was so severe we had to take him to the emergency vet. It happened again later on and we reconized the signs and were able to take care of it ourselves at home.

    Crosby, my white boxer, is old and thin and has hemangiosarcoma. He was diagnosed with hemangiosarcoma about 3 years ago. I think the raw diet has really helped him. I really think the diet along with lots of prayers is what has helped him hang on this long. I really don't know how old he is as he is a rescue, but we estimate he is 13 years old. I find that simply amazing. We moved 2 years ago and my new vet was stunned when I told her he had hemangiosarcoma. I have a real hard time keeping wait on him and took him off the diet for awhile to try to put some weight on him I had boarded him and he didnt eat much while there and lost weight so I thought I would try to put some quick weight on him using dog food. It hasn't worked much so I am going back to raw and trying to feed him 3 times a day.

    Other benefits I notice:
    Less poo in the yard, less flatulance, healthier coats and less shedding, less trips to vet (more money in my pocket).

    This has been my personal experience with raw. I did a good amount of research for about 1.5 years before I started it and have seen some wonderful benefits. No, my current Vet is not really a supporter of the vet, but I don't think she has ever given it much consideration or research, either. It is a big decision and there is always a learning curve. There are the ratios to follow, yet you have to "learn" what your dog tolerates and doesn't and how much is too much or not enough for your specific pet. It's hard at first and takes some dedication, but i have found it to be truly worth it.

    Marrow, I hope you are starting to get the hang of it and feeling better about it. Good Luck.
  4. Marrowshard

    Marrowshard New Member

    It's certainly been a learning process so far LOL. Our vet seems pretty much open to whatever we want to try ... she seems to understand that the ingredients themselves are more important than the label on a bag or whatever. Eb's been on fish-and-sweet potato for a couple of weeks now. She now poops about every day and a half (instead of once a day like clockwork) and they're smaller, darker, and almost odorless. She hasn't had any noticeable gas since we switched her and her coat is definitely glossy. Her ears are 20x better than they were, my only gripe is that her skin hasn't cleared up. I think she may still have a skin infection, but it's getting hard taking her to the vet to get more high-priced antibiotics every couple of weeks.

    We did finally find a decent treat for her ... banana chips! We can get the dried ones cheap in bulk from the grocery store. They're crunchy, a little sweet, high in potassium, and not even remotely related to grains or hoofed mammals so she's not likely to react adversely to them. She also loves them!

  5. PuppyPaws

    PuppyPaws New Member

    Sounds like a good start, overall. That's great. Regarding the skin infection, I'm not sure if you have tried this, but when Willow's neck was still sooo bad and everything else was better, we took her to the vet again. Her neck was her trouble spot. It was the worse and was the last thing that resolved. The vet gave us some extra help. We had tried various creams and ointments, etc. but the vet had just received a new product. It is called Mal-A-Ket Plus, TrizEDTA from DermaPet. I am looking at the bottle and it says it has 1% ketoconazole and 2% chlorhexidene ~ whatever all that is :) It really worked better than anything else we had tried. It was just the right thing. It comes in a spray bottle and we just gave her about 2 sprays twice a day and it cleared up quickly. I still have a lot left. Maybe you could ask about it. Not sure if it will work as good for you but we were very very pleased after all we had tried. Allergies are such a headache for people and dogs!
  6. Lehman

    Lehman New Member

    Well it is a good diet plan Marrow. Thanks for this information because it is good for new comers like me and i am not much expert in keeping dogs and new to this field.
  7. Marrowshard

    Marrowshard New Member

    We got a refill dosage of the antibiotic pills we had her on (not the Cephalexin she's allergic to, this is Ciproflaxacin). When I called for the pills, I asked if I could also get a topical spray to help clear up the bases of her ears. The vet didn't have Mal-A-Ket, so she gave me something similar called GentaVed. It uses gentamicin as the antifungal and betamethasone as the antibiotic. I found a place online that will sell Mal-A-Ket if this doesn't work. It's an alcohol base but Ebony doesn't seem to mind too much as long as i cover her earhole and rub her ears a little afterward. Slightly distressing: she's suddenly decided not to eat her meals. We've had her on fish-and-sweet potato for a couple of weeks and then a couple of days ago she wouldn't touch it. Usually she has a voracious appetite for fish and she'd watch every move I made while handling potatoes. We though maybe she was just tired of the same thing day after day so we gave her some of her old kibble (venison-and-rice). She picked at it but was pretty uninterested. We reasoned that it might be the antibiotics. Any time I'VE got an infection I'm trying to kick, my appetite comes and goes but mostly I just water. She's been drinking plenty and her poops are normal so she's not blocked up or anything. Even though we hadn't ruled it out as an allergen, I made up some chicken for her (cooked this time, skin and juices included) just to get something in her stomach. She ate it, but without much enthusiasm. At the exact same time, she started refusing her pills. We'd been stuffing them inside the duck-and-pea pill pockets which she ate like they were treats. Now she won't touch them. We tried peanut butter which should have been a sure thing, but she's either seriously ill or she's wise to the ways we've been doping her. I suspect the latter.
    So for the past 2 days we've been feeding her a combination of a small portion of kibble and some plain chicken. To give her her pills, we have to force her mouth open and plant them in the back of her mouth. She hasn't tried to bite us at all (luckily!) but she doesn't make it easy on us.
    I'm not sure what's brought this on but it's definitely stressing me out. I don't want this to signal some sort of unstoppable decline. She's not a spring chicken and I worry for her.

  8. PuppyPaws

    PuppyPaws New Member

    What were the symptoms she displayed when she was allergic to the Cephalexin? Are you noticing any similiar signs? Just wondering if she could be allergic to the new antibiotic or the new spray? I have not heard of the GentaVed, but that doesn't mean much ;) I hope it works for you. I hope she gets to feeling better too.

    I have noticed at times that my dogs will turn their noses up to certain foods if they have had them regularly. Right now, they are turning down chicken which is surprising me a bit. Not sure if they are just tired of it or if maybe they got a bad piece without me realizing it. I have decided just to back off chicken. They are eating turkey now without problem. They are still interested in fish, hamburger, etc. It is decidedly chicken.

    Hopefully, just backing off what you are feeding for a while will help. It sounds like she is not feeling well though. I wonder if it is not the pills, like you suspect. They might just be making her a little nauseated. Antibiotics do that to me. Is she acting constipated? When I notice constipation, I try to give the dogs some canned pumpkin. Not the pie filling, just canned regular pumpkin. Just a tablespoon or two. I have even hidden their pills in that. They seem to love it. Maybe you could try that? I also use some canned green beans sometimes to give them a little ruffage or if i see them eating a good bit of grass. You could try a different kind of fish too a little later on.

    Good Luck. I hope she gets to feeling better soon. I have one that is NOT a spring chicken, either. I turn into a freak when he starts acting weird or sickly. Keep us posted on her progress. Sending prayers for healing :).
  9. Marrowshard

    Marrowshard New Member

    We had had her on the Cephalexin for a couple of days and started noticing swellings on her face like hives. She was already abttling a skin infection, but those were manifesting as flat reddish spots. She got more and more hives over the next few days until finally her ears had completely closed up, her eyelids were puffy, entire mouth/nose area was swollen, etc. We looked Cephalexin up through Google and found other people whose pets had had bad hive reactions to it. Took Ebony back to the vet who did NOT believe me when I said I thought she was allergic. They gave her a couple of steroid and antihistamine shots to bring the swelling down. On my insistance, the vet finally went to go look up the drug info and said Ebony must be the "rare" case of severe allergic reaction to Cephalexin.

    After that we switched to Ciprofloxacin, which is in an entirely different drug family so she shouldn't have been allergic per se, but (again thanks to Google) we found cautions for it that listed loss of appetite and difficulty breathing (she's been sounding asthmatic lately) as "serious" side effects. I called the vet on Monday and explained the situation. The vet said it was probably that Ebony had learned to associate mealtimes with pills and was refusing food based on that. Not sure I believe her. I would understand if Ebony rejected the kibble, since we had previously used that to dope her. Same with the pill pockets and the peanut butter. But we had never stuffed pills into the fish or the potatoes, and even if we had that didn't explain why she wouldn't eat ANYTHING: not her chicken liver treats, cooked chicken, anything. I had to resort to forcing her mouth open and palming lumps of sweet potato to her throat. She wouldn't come stand by me to wait for her meals, wouldn't respond to treats of any kind, and even when we (in frustration) left a bowl of food in her kennel with her she wouldn't touch it. That, to me, doesn't sound like pill-phobia it sounds like a total lack of appetite.

    Anyway, the vet said we could discontinue the Cipro pills as long as her skin was looking good and we kept up with the topical spray. Her skin DOES look lots better though not completely clear. The spray seems to be working pretty well and she doesn't mind it as much as the pills so we're okay with that.

    We're now feeding her anything she'll eat. Husband keeps trying to get her to eat kibble (since we have a lot left and it was kind of expensive), but she just picks at it then ignores it. I take cooked chicken and potato and nuke it a bit then mash it all together. She's been eating that fine (for now) and just this morning I got her to take some Benadryl (she's still wheezy, not sure whether it's seasonal allergies or what but it worries me) by tucking it into a mooshed up piece of a Kraft single. Probably not the best thing for her if she's prone to allergies, but at this point I'm more interested in keeping her from starving.

    She's not at all constipated. Poops have been normal so far and she's urinating normally (for her; she drinks like a horse). I suspect it was the antibiotics. She's been on a lot of pills for several weeks now so I'm sure it's affecting her somehow. I really just want this infection licked so we can get things back to normal.

  10. PuppyPaws

    PuppyPaws New Member

    Sounds like you are doing all you can, Marrow. I hope you are seeing some improvement. I have done the Kraft singles thing in desperation as some of my dogs have gottan wise to the pnut butter trick. They know when I pill is in it and when there is no pill.

    I am glad you stayed on your VET about the allergic reaction. Good for you. I think you really did your dog a great favor there, it sounds like. You know your dog best. When something is off, sometimes you have to make yourself heard. Good for you!

    Another idea if eating continues to be a problem would be to try Satin Balls. They might really help to put some weight back on her and get some food in her. Keep us posted!
  11. AKBull

    AKBull Super Moderator Staff Member

    Mmm, naked toast, mmmm. Or are you suggesting we eat breakfast in the buff?

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