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Polydactyl paw- big deal???

smfidler

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the kind words and information! I am soo happy it'll be an easy fix, although I was more worried about it being uncomfortable for him than anything else. We are going to neuter as soon as he is ready and will have it scheduled for the same time.
 

raechiemay

Well-Known Member
I would search for some of the threads on this forum that talk about when is the best time to spay or neuter a giant breed dog. These were things I didn't know prior to coming here & it has greatly affected our decision on when we plan to spay Duchess. If your vet is anything like mine, they were pushing a spay for Duchess starting at 4 months all because it would be "easier" for him to do. When I told the receptionist to print us an estimate for a dog weighing over 100 lbs she proceeded to argue with me in the lobby about the importance of getting it done right at 6 months or before. Had I not come to this forum I probably would've done it & then potentially created issues for Duchess.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Yah, your vet will say 6months. If you so choose to do it then its your decision, but please do some research first. It has nothing to do with reproduction and everything to do with the health of the dog.

My links are at home, but theres several threads on this already if you dig, otherwise I'll post links when I get home today.

Also check with the breeder, many put something about when to neuter in their contracts.
 
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smfidler

Well-Known Member
We didn't have our shih tzu done until he was 2, just kept forgetting and since he is an inside dog I wasn't too worried, so we aren't in too much of a rush. I know at the shelters they really push for it super early, I actually thought 6 months was a good time, guess I will have a lot of research to do. I am soo glad I found this forum. My father had two EMs when I was littler but I have never personally raised one.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
For a little guy like a shihtzu 6 months isn't a horrid age, but for these guys....well, lets just say they grow at a different rate and it DOES make a difference (your vet will argue....)

a quote of a post I did in another thread (fixed a typo in this quote that I didn't catch in the originial):

As a general rule, if at all possible, FOR GIANT BREEDS, I like to see a minimum of 1.5yrs, and would really like to see him closer to 2yrs if at all possible. There are a few different health issues that would push me to neuter earlier (testicular cancer, or a dog who hasn't dropped both testicles by the age of 1yr, for example), but very very few behavioral issues.

For the health risks involved with neutering earlier I'll do my best, but for a better breakdown I like this article.

The first thing you need to realize is that alot of the earlier studies done on the effects of spay/neuter were done on smaller dogs, or at best "average" dogs like Labs or GSDs. These dogs grow and mature at different rates than our giants do.

The 2nd thing you need to understand is that vets understand that the word "cancer" is scary as heck and are more than willing to use it to scare you into doing what they want. In reality the chances of testicular cancer in an intact dog are extremely small. And the intact dogs who DO get cancer very very rarely suffer from major complications or death due to the fact that neutering AT THAT TIME removes the problem. There ARE prostate problems that can occur in an intact dog, but they aren't likely to occur before the age of 4 (and again, neutering at the time of the problem will usually solve (or help solve) the issue).

The horomones affect the growth plates in dogs. Early neuter (or spay) often results in dogs who's growth plates don't close properly. Now this does NOT mean the dog will be stunted (another common mis-conception), infact it means the exact opposite. The bones keep growing when they shouldn't resulting in long spindly bones, and dog with body parts that may be out of proportion to the rest of its body.

Neuter before fully mature also increases the risks of osteosarcoma (bone cancer), cardiac hemangiosarcoma (another cancer), prostate cancer (admitedly not a large risk even then), urinary tract cancers (again, not a huge risk even then), increases the risks of hypothyroidism, obesity, geriatric cognitive imparement, and various orthopedic disorders (including hip displasia). It may also increase the risks of bad vaccine reactions.

NOT neutering may increase the risk of non-cancerous prostate problems, testicular cancer (not a huge % of risk to be honest), and MAY increase the risk of diabetes.

Its a bit more complicated for the girls. The risks involved with not spaying are a bit more numerous, but again in most cases the actual risks aren't until the dog is over the age of two years.

Now obviously the additional risk of not spaying or neutering is that your dog could father pups or become pregnant. So as much as I really like to see a dog owner wait till the dog is mature, I also hold the thought that if you are not a responsible owner, in that you allow the dog to be outside with no fence-leash-training or supervision, then you should just go ahead and spay or neuter the dog. Period.

The link out in that article is here: http://www2.dcn.org/orgs/ddtc/sfiles/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf Its one of the better put together ones. But I'll dig out my others if you like.

In the end its the owners choice, but I really want to see the owners TOLD this information so they can make the choice understanding the risks involved with both sides. So many vets are either unaware of the recent studies involving giant dogs, or choose to disregard it due to their biases. So many times I've talked to owners of female dogs, spayed at or before 6 months on the vets recommendation, only to come back to the vets when the dog is a year or two old because she's "leaking urine when she sits", only to be told that "thats a normal side effect of the age of spay", and yet have NO memory of being told of ANY possible downsides to that early spay. And "leaking urine" due to an early spay is an EXTREAMLY well known side effect, and yet the vets just don't discuss it with the owners in their push to have the dog spayed or neutered on their schedule.
 

smfidler

Well-Known Member
Wow! Thanks for the info. We will definitely be waiting. And reading a bit more about the risks so I am prepared for the vet pressure. We haven't met the vet here on base, we just got here two weeks ago, but will be soon. Hopefully they are not too pushy and accept my choice
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Just stand your ground. I took the 'easy out' in that A: Apollo's breeder wrote into her contract that he could NOT be neutered till after 10months of age, and B: informed the vet that 'we're considering showing him'. Which shut the vet up completely, which was good cause I was starting to get pissed.....
 

smfidler

Well-Known Member
DSC_0098.jpgHere is a better pic of the extra toe, he also has a nail that curves around. I am so thankful that we didn't let something like that scare us off after we picked him out. We love him so much and he has been a great fit into our family.
 

dujac

Well-Known Member
here's a link to photos of a gsd with a more pronounced case of it

Charlie, a dog in our care who looks like a german shepherd but could be a mix, is polydactyl. He has 2 extra toes on both his front and back paws (pictures at left). These extra toes make his paws look huge in comparison to his body. His head seems a little large for his body too!

http://www.4luvofdog.org/wp/what-is-polydactyl
 
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smfidler

Well-Known Member
here's a link to photos of a gsd with a more pronounced case of it

Charlie, a dog in our care who looks like a german shepherd but could be a mix, is polydactyl. He has 2 extra toes on both his front and back paws (pictures at left). These extra toes make his paws look huge in comparison to his body. His head seems a little large for his body too!


http://www.4luvofdog.org/wp/what-is-polydactyl

Thanks for the pic. Thankfully Bentley's "toe" is boneless so the vet said it's easy to remove. I don't plan to have it done until we neuter, no sense in putting him under too many times.
 

smfidler

Well-Known Member
Is he essentially one toe short on that foot?

Nope, just inbetween two of the toes he has this little skin bubble with a nail on it. Then the nail on the outside is curving for some reason, hopefully frequent trimming will correct that