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Pedigree for my Pup's Sire.....is this a good line?

dogman#1

Well-Known Member
KSH, I will send to a judge privately via email as I am no longer on facebook (temporary thing). This might take a little while but I promise I will get you the results privately via a private message or something and if you decide on sharing that will be up to you. BTW dont expect alot because it is just a picture.
 

kshymkiw

Active Member
KSH, I will send to a judge privately via email as I am no longer on facebook (temporary thing). This might take a little while but I promise I will get you the results privately via a private message or something and if you decide on sharing that will be up to you. BTW dont expect alot because it is just a picture.

No problem, I completely understand. Thank you very much for taking the time to do it. I realize he is no Champion or Grand Champion in the making, but the flaws I see out of him are pretty minor in comparison to some of the other dogs I have looked at.

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------

I don't personally like its conformation now I'm no judge but the dog just doesn't look right... and its ears are getting me because that's such a big thing

Tapd on my skyrocket

The thing about ears, is no matter what breeder I look at, I can't find one breeder who has proper ears on all their dogs. Even Lionsden has some dogs with shorter than acceptable ears. His ears are a bit shorter, but then again maybe it is how the pictures were taken, ears at rest look much different than ears at full attention.
 

kshymkiw

Active Member
I don't personally like its conformation now I'm no judge but the dog just doesn't look right... and its ears are getting me because that's such a big thing

Tapd on my skyrocket

The thing about ears, is no matter what breeder I look at, I can't find one breeder who has proper ears on all their dogs. Even Lionsden has some dogs with shorter than acceptable ears. His ears are a bit shorter, but then again maybe it is how the pictures were taken, ears at rest look much different than ears at full attention.
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
she is indeed very much more involved in the breed than myself...no doubts there...she sells a bunch of puppies...she raises a lot of dogs....and with that said she makes a lot of money doing so...she is indeed more involved than me...slim12


I disagree with the last part. I would venture to put my money that she is more involved with the Fila Breed, than you are.


---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

the carioca dogs carry about the most consistenet set of ears i have seen...dog to dog...litter to litter...at rest lower than the eyes...at attention level with the eyes...but never above the eye....slim12


The thing about ears, is no matter what breeder I look at, I can't find one breeder who has proper ears on all their dogs. Even Lionsden has some dogs with shorter than acceptable ears. His ears are a bit shorter, but then again maybe it is how the pictures were taken, ears at rest look much different than ears at full attention.
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
the carioca dogs carry about the most consistenet set of ears i have seen...dog to dog...litter to litter...at rest lower than the eyes...at attention level with the eyes...but never above the eye....slim12


The thing about ears, is no matter what breeder I look at, I can't find one breeder who has proper ears on all their dogs. Even Lionsden has some dogs with shorter than acceptable ears. His ears are a bit shorter, but then again maybe it is how the pictures were taken, ears at rest look much different than ears at full attention.


---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

she did not have all the phenotype that would fit her into either of the standards...a lot of minor faults that just add up....but she is more inline of what the original filas were as far as what they were asked to do...she was athletic and powerful...she had drive out the ying yang...she was not much of a herder but she would catch anything i pointed at...she was verbally obedient...and when she was doing her "job" (almost like she had a real one)...she could work around people without being all "fila " like...but at home she would put on a display...enough to scare the average guy..so i was good with that...we had her just about good enough to track a shot deer...not a 100% reliable tracker but was getting there....she was just a good dog....she was very willing to please and was very accepting of anything we asked or tried to teach....her two short comings was she had a lot of minor faults and when she was bred she had no desire to raise puppies...she would stand on top of one and wag her tail while she crushed it...no concept at all....(the breeding was accidental...she was a real hootchie...she would destroy anything to get to a male when she was in heat....slim12



I really mean no offense here but that dog in the pic really is not a good representation of the breed. i am surprised that it was bred. Slim, your dog sounds awesome and I can see you loved it. If it was ripped apart by the judges, failed her "Fila" tt, wrong ear set, high stop, etc why would you say she was the closest example of a fila? She sounds like an AWESOME dog but maybe not a good fila.
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
she did not have all the phenotype that would fit her into either of the standards...a lot of minor faults that just add up....but she is more inline of what the original filas were as far as what they were asked to do...she was athletic and powerful...she had drive out the ying yang...she was not much of a herder but she would catch anything i pointed at...she was verbally obedient...and when she was doing her "job" (almost like she had a real one)...she could work around people without being all "fila " like...but at home she would put on a display...enough to scare the average guy..so i was good with that...we had her just about good enough to track a shot deer...not a 100% reliable tracker but was getting there....she was just a good dog....she was very willing to please and was very accepting of anything we asked or tried to teach....her two short comings was she had a lot of minor faults and when she was bred she had no desire to raise puppies...she would stand on top of one and wag her tail while she crushed it...no concept at all....(the breeding was accidental...she was a real hootchie...she would destroy anything to get to a male when she was in heat....slim12



I really mean no offense here but that dog in the pic really is not a good representation of the breed. i am surprised that it was bred. Slim, your dog sounds awesome and I can see you loved it. If it was ripped apart by the judges, failed her "Fila" tt, wrong ear set, high stop, etc why would you say she was the closest example of a fila? She sounds like an AWESOME dog but maybe not a good fila.
 

dogman#1

Well-Known Member
Slim, she really sounds like a great dog, no doubt. You bring up a good topic here with the lack of desire/instinct to raise pups correctly... I have had a conversation about this sort of behavior with every single breeder of any dog breed I have ever met or talked to. the consensus is always that sort of thing is inheritable and it has proven itself over and over..I find it so odd as it should be such a strong instinct especially in animals and it intrigues me when its not. My bitch was an insanely good mother even at first whelp almost to the point of obsessive. No other breeder believed me of the stories I told them of how she used to act with them until their pups from her had their own litters and acted identical. and in the reverse heard of a pup this breeder had to raise cause the mom ate half the litter and then the pup grew up, had a litter of her own and did the same thing.. the dog was otherwise a very good dog with proper temp and nervous system...needless to say that dog was never bred again.

ksh...lionsden does not have good examples of filas and they are not pure so ofcourse his dogs are not consistent, that is why one should always start with QUALITY pure specimens if they want to breed instead of poor quality mixed bred specimens and then try to improve. I am going to start another thread with an e-mail I got that is very similar to what I have said all along but well written, lol.

---------- Post added at 01:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 AM ----------

or not...looks like I lost the email. sorry.
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
seen it with other females of different breeds also...she killed one by standing on it...we heard the puppy and went running but by the time we got there it was too late...and she could have cared less....we ended up saving five males out a litter of ten....none of them amounted to squat....my wife kept one and it was about as anti-fila as anti-fila could possibly be...he never met a single person he did not like...slim12
 

dogman#1

Well-Known Member
and this is the problem with cross breeding... you got a big dog (mastiff) and you want to put more drive so you add an apbt in theory you come out with a smaller than mastiff but bigger than apbt with more muscle and harder drive...right? well just like communism and socialism it only works well in theory alone. no one can predict how the genes will come together, how right or wrong it will be. Yes, there might be one, 2 or even the whole litter that comes out the way you wanted but more than likely you will end up with something that you did not was in size, temp, muscle/skeletal structure, etc. this is why pure breds are bred. they have consistently (with few exceptions) produced desired traits for the function that someone wants...want a fast dog? get a greyhound, want a ratter? get a terrier, etc. there are breeds of dogs with temp, size , structure, etc for pretty much what we want. Now if one finds him/herself in need of a dog with a particular function that has not been bred then by all means try to create one but do so in a responsible manner and have the means to see it through.
 

filagiel

Well-Known Member
I own 3 Eshabeta dogs, I have a 18 week old pup from the Bene & Sacket litter. All my dogs have correct type, temperament, sound, and are easy to train. I spoke to alot of breeders over the 14 yr period that I've owned these dogs and went to Dawa Berg for her knowledge and compassion for the breed. She is NOT in it for the money, she takes EXCELLENT care of each and every one of her dogs and that money goes back to the dogs. She screens new potential buyers and will not sell a dog to just anyone inquiring. Most of the dogs she sells are previous customers. Good Luck to you and your new pup : )
 

Dogue

Well-Known Member
The last pic looks like a different dog. I thought it was a Tosa. Something doesn't look right though. Ditto Tiger.