Mastiff's outside

[JLeighL]

def agree to that!!!!! lol.

 

[Tiger12490]

Lol that's very true good job but they were never companions you know the reason we bonded was for the bases of food you scratch my back I scratch yours they don't need to be with us its just easier to use us that's all they really do lol your giving human emotions to animals again....I love my dogs but I know that there dogs...there is no point to be made to someone that thinks its cruelty to animals to leave a dog outside lol

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[bullyBug]

there is no point to be made to someone that thinks its cruelty to animals to leave a dog outside lol

Tapd on my skyrocket

Or to someone that thinks dogs don't feel "human" emotions like happyness, sadness, anxiety, and depression.

 

[Marrowshard]

If it is rude to accuse people who keep dogs outside as commiting animal cruelty, isn't it at least as rude to belittle people who appreciate their dogs as more than dumb beasts? It's a very broad spectrum and there's room for everyone on it. Personal disagreements are what they are, but don't you think it's a bit of "the pot calling the kettle black" to be just as combative as the people you're scolding?

I used to have horses when I was younger. If i subscribed to the "ancestral" role horses had held, I suppose I should have slaughtered and eaten them when they got past their prime instead of retiring them to a nice pasture. After all, if they're not useful as mounts for my seasonal buffalo hunting, what good are they?

I find no argument with people who keep dogs for their bred purpose or who prefer to house them outdoors, but they must then provide adequately for them. I may be wrong in saying so, but it seems the majority of people here who disagree with "outside dogs" do so because so many people do it as a form of neglect. There's a huge difference between providing health and mental well-being to a dog who happens to live outdoors, and chaining one to a wall in the backyard (or basement or garage, for that matter) to be fed on scraps and denied social interaction.

In taming wolves to create dogs, we conciously chose to take the place of their native packs and become their pack. If a person can't or won't take that responsibility, they have no place owning dogs indoor or outdoor.

~Marrow

 

[Tiger12490]

Dogs aren't dumb but they don't have complex emotions......and as more than beast cronos is my friend and an inside dog who probably would lose his mind if he was left outside... but to tell someone that its wrong to leave a properly taken care of dog outside is ridiculous I've never said anyones name or called anyone out if you were offended then I don't know what to tell you...and there is nothing wrong with eating horses its done a lot in other countries supposed to taste better than beef...what you do when the horse died? Dog food....or you waste all of it? There's also nothing wrong with huntig buffalo horse back its still also done....I would think your more normal to eat the horse then let it lay on your couch

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[chuckorlando]

If it is rude to accuse people who keep dogs outside as commiting animal cruelty, isn't it at least as rude to belittle people who appreciate their dogs as more than dumb beasts? It's a very broad spectrum and there's room for everyone on it. Personal disagreements are what they are, but don't you think it's a bit of "the pot calling the kettle black" to be just as combative as the people you're scolding?

See those extremes is the whole issue. On one hand your an abuser who thinks a dogs a dumb beast. On the other are the people who think there dogs are more than dumb beast.

Me Tiger, and DD seem to be the more vocal on the subject. Funny thing is, all 3 of us have inside dogs. I just posted pics of my dumb beast with a B-day hate on. Non of us have said you were wrong. Yet our opinions are tantamount cruel animal abusers.

I'm not, and dont think anyone else is scolding you. But we are being scolded. All we've done was express the reality of what the dog is and was made to be. Never once said it was not ok to keep them inside. Only said it dont HAVE to be. On the other hand, theres a member being scolded cause their dog likes being outside. Surely no dog would like that. I mean thats absurd. Only reason dogs like out side is we force them to................

No, it aint the pot calling the kettle black as the only one name calling is the kettle

 

[Jadotha]

Oh, really sorry to hear this! But I am sure he will recover well, and most dogs are very adaptable to that kind of a limitation. I'm gald he will be inside, and hopefully you can extend that.

 

[chuckorlando]

But I will say this, if my wife told me to put my dogs outside, I'd tell her to pound sand. If you want your dog inside, buddy would just have to deal with that. Your dog will starve to death with you, your old man likely wont even go hungry

 

[skifflexie]

I understand both sides. I have my own mastiff that lives with me at my boyfriends house (his parents live here too) and Fallon, my pup is completly indoors, and has never spent a night outside.... and is spoiled rotten. sleeps in the bed EVERY night. But at the same time my bf's parents have a mixed dog, mostly mastiff, who is completly outside. (with the exception of this summer, we're currently in a drought in MO) so recently she's been allowed to come in, and shes the perfect inside dog as well, she hasnt had a mess, and is very calm and collected inside.she almost is better behaved inside, than out. but anyways, she absoulty loves being outside, and I feel that there is no problem with keeping her outside, as long as weather permits. But I would be against putting an inside dog outside... Im my opinion its a preference, but it needs to be decided when the dog is a pup, that way the dog is used to it. I love Fallon, he is a companion dog, he snuggles, and leans, and is always by my side, and I LOVE that, and you dont get such a ONE ON ONE connectin with a dog that is outside a lot.

 

[JLeighL]

Lol it's amazing at the turn this convo turned to. My dog is perfectly fine outside as he would inside. For all of the inside dog owners, bravo! I see nothin wrong with keeping them inside. It's normal, as is a dog being kept outside. My dog is very smart and is never looked at a dumb,or a beast, for that matter. I didn't intend to start any argument between members and I hope that nothing negative has been said against me bc of our situation. Thanks for all the input and I hope that there are no hard feelings towards anyone bc of anything said. Charlie and I are going spend some qt!

 

[Marrowshard]

@Tiger12490: "Dumb" here having the classical meaning of "unable to speak", not "stupid" - the reference in whole to "dumb beast" is a broad reference to animals who are unable to communicate on human terms. Just clarifying there, was certainly not implying that dogs are stupid or anything.

I am not offended by the position you (or others) take, which I thought was clear from the third paragraph, and I didn't not see any instances of name-calling from either side so I'm not entirely sure where you're taking that from, especially since it's apparently directed at my post. I do not feel I've been insulted - actually my only other post here was in direct response to the OP's query about disagreements with a SO over a dog's living conditions.

My entire point, which seems to have gotten lost, is that regardless of which way you choose to interpret your dog's emotional capacity and needs is just that: a choice. You choose to believe your dog is primarily a tool (in the sense of an item used to perform work), others choose to believe their dog is a hairy child. There's nothing wrong with either but the way you and some other posters here are behaving, it's as though only the way you believe is correct and only you are being polite and everyone else is just ignorant. It's certainly not limited to just you or anyone else.

I'm also not sure how I'm supposed to respond to the suggestion to put my horse on a couch. It would make as much sense to take my goldfish out of his tank and put him in the dog kennel. It doesn't make sense as a rebuttal or a proper analogy. My point with that statement was to illustrate that domestic animals today of all kinds are generally far removed from their original treatment and purpose and that to ignore the advances made by humanity in that same space of time with relation to our treatment of animals would be, possibly, flippant. I have great respect for working animals and the people who care for them, but a working cutting horse in Wyoming is not the same animal as a trail-rider in the Midwest. They are the same species but for entirely different purposes. I would have hoped that was clear from the context. By that same token, it would be wrong to assume that because I keep pets I'm unaware of the meat animal industry. Horses are indeed eaten in many countries, just as dogs are, but they are not the same as pets in those countries (except when overlapping the quasi-illegal practice of pet-napping). A farmed meat horse (generally a Brabant in developed countries, which is also used to produce mammoth mules) is not a pet, and the meat-raised "yellow dog" of Asian countries is not the same as the family lap-lounger.

~Marrow

 

[Jadotha]

@ Chuck and Tiger...ok, WOW! At JLeight's request and invitation, I expressed my opinions about inside (companion) versus outside (proper working -- herding, guarding, hunting, etc.) dogs. I am not going to comment further -- but I certainly don't feel that I have 'scolded', criticised , or demeaned anyone's choice. And I unequivocally said that I definitely did not consider JLeight's decisions as abusive.

But I begin to have a problem when someone states that a dog 'is just a dog' and "they don't need to be with us its just easier to use us that's all they really do lol your giving human emotions to animals again"
Domestication may have begun with a symbiotic relationship thousands of years ago, but it is not this way now. In the Vanya project with Silver Foxes, after 38 generations of selective breeding they are now producing tame and people oriented foxes who crave human companionship. Recent studies of canine cognition prove that dog's have far more complex cognition than previously thought, and have emotions that include empathy, compassion, depression and anxiety. They also suffer from a number of human-like neuroses.

Moving on to horses. Horses have made an enormous contribution to mankind. They have been transportation -- enabling us to settle the west as one example, brave war horses in almost every culture, plowing horses on farms, working horses -- cutting and roping horses, competition horses -- racing, dressage, showing -- and companion animals. With their huge contributions, I personally don't believe it is morally right to also eat them.

 

[chuckorlando]

I'm most certainly not directing that at you. As the copy and paste was not a complete reflection of your post. But it did show how the two extremes seem to be played out. No diff than most all debates. I'm also not saying everyone or even most have said anything wrong. You dont have to call someone a name to imply something.

what's the point of having a companion if you keep them outside

I never could understand people that got a dog and then abandoned it to the backyard

Personally if I had to have a dog outside I wouldn't have one

A companion couldn't be a companion if they are kept away from you

Also, I guess I don't understand why a person would get a pet and then cage it away outside

Now none of that was likely meant with any ill. I'm fairly certain. But I would venture to guess it would come off as talking down. Or back handed. Again, I dont think they were meant that way. But it sounds a little like" you aint right to" me. I certainly dont want to offend no one cause in my world I treat my dogs just like 90% of you think they should. I just dont believe they HAVE to be. And I dont believe anyone can say or imply someone else is wrong for doing what they do. Like I said, I may have an issue with how it's done, but not the mind state.

I know someone with a pet cow. I mean does tricks, family member cow hangs out in the yard kinda pet. So you probly could get your horse on a sofa. ahahaha

Again, sorry if I offended anyone or come off as a prick

@Tiger12490: "Dumb" here having the classical meaning of "unable to speak", not "stupid" - the reference in whole to "dumb beast" is a broad reference to animals who are unable to communicate on human terms. Just clarifying there, was certainly not implying that dogs are stupid or anything.

I am not offended by the position you (or others) take, which I thought was clear from the third paragraph, and I didn't not see any instances of name-calling from either side so I'm not entirely sure where you're taking that from, especially since it's apparently directed at my post. I do not feel I've been insulted - actually my only other post here was in direct response to the OP's query about disagreements with a SO over a dog's living conditions.

My entire point, which seems to have gotten lost, is that regardless of which way you choose to interpret your dog's emotional capacity and needs is just that: a choice. You choose to believe your dog is primarily a tool (in the sense of an item used to perform work), others choose to believe their dog is a hairy child. There's nothing wrong with either but the way you and some other posters here are behaving, it's as though only the way you believe is correct and only you are being polite and everyone else is just ignorant. It's certainly not limited to just you or anyone else.

I'm also not sure how I'm supposed to respond to the suggestion to put my horse on a couch. It would make as much sense to take my goldfish out of his tank and put him in the dog kennel. It doesn't make sense as a rebuttal or a proper analogy. My point with that statement was to illustrate that domestic animals today of all kinds are generally far removed from their original treatment and purpose and that to ignore the advances made by humanity in that same space of time with relation to our treatment of animals would be, possibly, flippant. I have great respect for working animals and the people who care for them, but a working cutting horse in Wyoming is not the same animal as a trail-rider in the Midwest. They are the same species but for entirely different purposes. I would have hoped that was clear from the context. By that same token, it would be wrong to assume that because I keep pets I'm unaware of the meat animal industry. Horses are indeed eaten in many countries, just as dogs are, but they are not the same as pets in those countries (except when overlapping the quasi-illegal practice of pet-napping). A farmed meat horse (generally a Brabant in developed countries, which is also used to produce mammoth mules) is not a pet, and the meat-raised "yellow dog" of Asian countries is not the same as the family lap-lounger.

~Marrow

 

[Tiger12490]

There where a few people that made it seem like they were calling it abuse so much the OP got defensive we were directed at them.. if you weren't one than why are u defensive again I never said a name.....you miss understood the fact that I nor anyone else think keeping an indoor dog is wrong but there were at least 3 people that made it seem like keeping an outside dog was treason... that's my point through all of this if you think dogs shouldn't be kept outside I strongly feel your wrong we could clash with history, hypothesis and grammar corrections until the cows come home I suppose but then what I really wanted to get out may be lost

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[JLeighL]

There is one way to solve this. Who on here thinks that having a dog and keeping outside even tho he has adequate exercise, mind stimulation, medical care, compainionship on a different level than sleeping in my bed, and love is wrong? Who thinks that ALL, no matter the breed should be kept indoors, and who thinks that dogs that love outdoors should be outdoors doing their thing out there? Just choose 1, 2, or 3. I feel as if I have started a war but might I add he does come inside on occasion and hang with me if I have something to do where I can't be with him.

 

[Marrowshard]

No worries JLeighL ... I strongly suspect that what's happened here is we're generally approaching the same conclusion from different points. I tried to defuse some tempers and ended up getting dragged in where I didn't want to be.

Years ago, the car my husband was driving at the time unexpectedly died halfway home from work. I was on overnights at the time and dead tired when he called me for a lift. Tempers were high and we sat in a McDonalds arguing over what to do next. I eventually had to stop him and point out that we were arguing the exact same thing but were so cranky it was coming out in shouts. It was probably funny to an outsider to hear us going on all "Well clearly we need a new car!" "Stupid car! We never should have bought it, now we need a new one!" "Fine!" "Fine!"

Anyway ... you might have a hard time finding people to slot into one category or another. I would say that the vast, vast majority - myself included - feel that the way a dog is taken care of is bigger than simply where it sleeps. If you give your dog attention, food, shelter, etc. to the best of your ability then you've probably done alright by them and that's what's important. As I said in my first post: my husband and I had to negotiate a bit but in the end it worked out. Even now, my husband sometimes leaves Oscar out of his crate at night - something he was dead against - because he's shown himself to be a quiet, lazy dog who will absolutely sleep soundly all night on his doggie bed. He's still not allowed on the bed (I didn't have to concede much there ... he's too big to fit!), and that's okay with me.

I think your decision to bring your boy inside while he recovers from surgery is a good one, if for no other reason than a healing wound attracts flies and dirt and he's less likely to get an infection if he's indoors and under closer observation.

~Marrow

 

[DDBsR4Me]

But I begin to have a problem when someone states that a dog 'is just a dog' and "they don't need to be with us its just easier to use us that's all they really do lol your giving human emotions to animals again"
Domestication may have begun with a symbiotic relationship thousands of years ago, but it is not this way now. In the Vanya project with Silver Foxes, after 38 generations of selective breeding they are now producing tame and people oriented foxes who crave human companionship. Recent studies of canine cognition prove that dog's have far more complex cognition than previously thought, and have emotions that include empathy, compassion, depression and anxiety. They also suffer from a number of human-like neuroses.

Moving on to horses. Horses have made an enormous contribution to mankind. They have been transportation -- enabling us to settle the west as one example, brave war horses in almost every culture, plowing horses on farms, working horses -- cutting and roping horses, competition horses -- racing, dressage, showing -- and companion animals. With their huge contributions, I personally don't believe it is morally right to also eat them.

We so need a "like" button

And I have to agree. I own horses too and they are better therapists than any human therapist could be (and I have a psych degree)!

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

It happens here pretty often. There are several topics that people are pretty passionate about and this is one of them haha.

Yeap, but at least here people are much more mature and respectful about it.

---------- Post added at 08:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------

There is one way to solve this. Who on here thinks that having a dog and keeping outside even tho he has adequate exercise, mind stimulation, medical care, compainionship on a different level than sleeping in my bed, and love is wrong? Who thinks that ALL, no matter the breed should be kept indoors, and who thinks that dogs that love outdoors should be outdoors doing their thing out there? Just choose 1, 2, or 3. I feel as if I have started a war but might I add he does come inside on occasion and hang with me if I have something to do where I can't be with him.

You did not start "war" if anything this is a great discussion. So long as your properly caring for you animal, inside or outside it should not matter. I hope he recovers well from the surgery.

Both my boys are just "dogs" but does that mean anything degrading? IMO no. Simply put I give them the best care, food, water, attention that they need to be happy. This doesn't mean that I don't "spoil" them in some way. However I don't give them anthropomorphic characteristics either. I know quite a few of you don't agree with Ceasar Millan but I will say this about the guy I do agree with his note with people humanizing animals in general. Especially in America. If people want to humanize their pets it your business and right to do so. I'm just saying people like to wave their pitchforks and torches when they hear of an individual who doesn't share their same views. Let it be a mastiff breed or other type of "companion" and people are ready to start a riot, lol. I just think people should be a bit more open rather than condemning an individual on how they raise their animals, but of course people will do what they want. My 2 cents.....

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

There is one way to solve this. Who on here thinks that having a dog and keeping outside even tho he has adequate exercise, mind stimulation, medical care, compainionship on a different level than sleeping in my bed, and love is wrong? Who thinks that ALL, no matter the breed should be kept indoors, and who thinks that dogs that love outdoors should be outdoors doing their thing out there? Just choose 1, 2, or 3. I feel as if I have started a war but might I add he does come inside on occasion and hang with me if I have something to do where I can't be with him.

You did not start "war" if anything this is a great discussion. So long as your properly caring for you animal, inside or outside it should not matter. I hope he recovers well from the surgery.

Both my boys are just "dogs" but does that mean anything degrading? IMO no. Simply put I give them the best care, food, water, attention that they need to be happy. This doesn't mean that I don't "spoil" them in some way. However I don't give them anthropomorphic characteristics either. I know quite a few of you don't agree with Ceasar Millan but I will say this about the guy I do agree with his note with people humanizing animals in general. Especially in America. If people want to humanize their pets it your business and right to do so. I'm just saying people like to wave their pitchforks and torches when they hear of an individual who doesn't share their same views. Let it be a mastiff breed or other type of "companion" and people are ready to start a riot, lol. I just think people should be a bit more open rather than condemning an individual on how they raise their animals, but of course people will do what they want. My 2 cents.....

 

[DQNASTY]

People frown at outside dogs they think if a dog is not in the home on the sofa its abuse but honestly it depends on the dog. Some dogs like and prefer being outside, others don't. My boys for example don't care too much for the outdoors they do their business and come back in. However before them my previous dogs LOVED the outdoors, the only time they came in was when it was "extreme" heat or cold. You'd tell them to come in the house and they would just lay there and look at you, or run off in the grass, LOL. That was a pain trying to get them in when it started raining.

My friend with the farm also has a few outdoor dogs both hounds ( most likely hunters hounds) they have the freedom to roam the 30 acre property day or night, they do just fine. I'm not advertisng the let your dog roam LOL, but I'm just saying most farms do have outdoor dogs. I know a lady that does rescue who keeps a few dogs outdoors on her property.

As long as you have adequate shelter, food, water, mental stimulation, and attention. I see no reason why a dog can't be outdoors. However that's just my opinion though.....

EXACTLY ITS A DOG NOT A PERSON ITS NATURAL FOR THEM TO BE OUTDOORS.. IF I WANT TO CUDDLE ON A COUCH I CUDDLE WITH MY WIFE LOL. MY DOGS DONT GET ON THE FURNITURE.