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Mastiff Puppy Knows his Size

id763

New Member
Hi, everyone.

This is my first post on the forum!

I am the "mommy" of a (100-lb.) 7.5-month-old male English Mastiff puppy named Bill. My boyfriend and I have had him since he was exactly 8 weeks old and I started most of his basic obedience training myself at home right away. However, as he's growing, we've begun getting the comment that he "knows his size" from the groomer and a couple different trainers, but haven't really gotten any concrete feedback on specific ways to combat this as he continues to grow. He isn't necessarily misbehaving, but he is getting into the stage of wanting to test people's limits (mostly mine) if presented with the opportunity. In your experience, how have you managed to command the respect of your mastiff at all times?
 

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Smokeycat

Well-Known Member
I found that I had to out stubborn him when he decided to try and get his own way despite knowing the rules. As for getting him to 'know his own size' I can't help there. Kryten thinks he is a 10lbs lap dog so occasionally I get a 200lbs dog trying to curl up in my lap like the cats do.
 

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
Denna has no concept of her size, but she has tested the limits... it's been a while, but back at 1-2 years old, she'd try the "flop on the ground' tactic when I wanted to leave her favorite place (the park and walking trails)... I just had to out-stubborn her and/or ignore her and act as if I would drive-off without her. I think one time I even started the car before she jumped up (off the asphault IN the parking lot) and ran for the car door... that might have been the last time she tried that! HA!

I consider Denna more of a partner than a subordinate, so I expect her to respect me, but I also "pay well" for a job well done. So... I do normally have treats stashed around to provide random rewards for following commands. And, I am very generous with praise and lovin', too. :)

It works for us... She knows when I'm serious - my tone of voice takes on the "mad mommy" tone... and she does NOT ignore that!

Groomers, vets, and others... they often don't get her respect... she doesn't like baby talk or fearful approaches, so we have to work around those types of personalities.
 

MM1234

Well-Known Member
He's testing his limits, he's right at that age. Stay consistent & don't let him get away with things. For example, if you tell him to lay down - make sure he does it don't let him get away with ignoring you.
 

Shawn s

New Member
My 11 month old named "Doopies" started testing his limits up until he learned the hard way to never mess with a pregnant woman. (my fiance) Then was threatened with the "just wait till your father gets home " line. Right before I get a call incoming on my cell phone.
 

Nik

Well-Known Member
Denna has no concept of her size, but she has tested the limits... it's been a while, but back at 1-2 years old, she'd try the "flop on the ground' tactic when I wanted to leave her favorite place (the park and walking trails)... I just had to out-stubborn her and/or ignore her and act as if I would drive-off without her. I think one time I even started the car before she jumped up (off the asphault IN the parking lot) and ran for the car door... that might have been the last time she tried that! HA!
Exactly the above ^^^ That is Diesel to a tee. Diesel does the flop down when he doesn't want to come inside from playing in the yard. I learned the best way to make him listen and come inside is to say "Okay Bye Bye" and then go inside without him. Sometimes simply walking away will get him up and running to me but other times he is more stubborn and I have to go inside and make sure he can't see me from the door (I hide around the corner). Then he will start scratching at the door and crying in a very pathetic way and I open the door and say "Oh.You want in after all?" A couple times of that and now he doesn't let it get that far anymore. Usually if I even start to close the door he comes charging. So I would say 100% outsmart them. :-D
 

Elana P

Well-Known Member
Exactly the above ^^^ That is Diesel to a tee. Diesel does the flop down when he doesn't want to come inside from playing in the yard. I learned the best way to make him listen and come inside is to say "Okay Bye Bye" and then go inside without him. Sometimes simply walking away will get him up and running to me but other times he is more stubborn and I have to go inside and make sure he can't see me from the door (I hide around the corner). Then he will start scratching at the door and crying in a very pathetic way and I open the door and say "Oh.You want in after all?" A couple times of that and now he doesn't let it get that far anymore. Usually if I even start to close the door he comes charging. So I would say 100% outsmart them. :-D
 

Elana P

Well-Known Member
@Nik

Funny you mentioned that, as baby Charlie has pulled that same stunt at the door as your boy Diesel.

Well before he knew what happened, he was on the wrong side of a closed door, in the dark. We had some crying and weeping and howling, before the door opened again. He figured it out pretty quick, lol.

Regarding the flop down tactic...
I just keep going with the other two. Charlie boy has a choice, you walk or you drag.... He walks !

~Elana~
 

debpdx54321

Member
When Monkey was a bit stubborn, I would put him into immediate bootcamp-sit down sit stay sit for about 5 minutes-he was more than happy enough to quit doing that and follow whatever command I was giving-walk or whatever-I think he was older though closer to 1 1/2maybe before he had his little testing spell. I would definitely work on obedience-I once knew a couple who could not enter any part of their kitchen once the food was put down-the dog was 2 yrs-I asked them when he started and they said 5 months-I asked them what they had done and said they were too scared-anyway, I am consistent in training but never raise my voice or allow body tension-I used to ride dressage horses and they can feel the tension right through you. Deep breathing and maintaining confidence and quiet are important. Mastiffs are very similar. I personally never used treats, but many do-Monkey doesn't consistently show interest in treats anyway.
We are partners and best friends-I am not about to do something stupid like alpha roll my dog-but we are partners that understand that mom knows best. And I agree with Dennas mom about being careful of who and how people are handling your pup.
 

PippatheMastiff

Well-Known Member
I have same relationship with Pippa as Dennasmom. Pippa really wants to please me so a stern look or voice snaps her out of any thoughts of bad behavior. Then she gets lot of love and praise for making the right decision. She has her stubborn moments but she's like a kid, a really obedient one. I'm blessed!


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lovemygypsy

Member
When Monkey was a bit stubborn, I would put him into immediate bootcamp-sit down sit stay sit for about 5 minutes-he was more than happy enough to quit doing that and follow whatever command I was giving-walk or whatever-I think he was older though closer to 1 1/2maybe before he had his little testing spell. I would definitely work on obedience-I once knew a couple who could not enter any part of their kitchen once the food was put down-the dog was 2 yrs-I asked them when he started and they said 5 months-I asked them what they had done and said they were too scared-anyway, I am consistent in training but never raise my voice or allow body tension-I used to ride dressage horses and they can feel the tension right through you. Deep breathing and maintaining confidence and quiet are important. Mastiffs are very similar. I personally never used treats, but many do-Monkey doesn't consistently show interest in treats anyway.
We are partners and best friends-I am not about to do something stupid like alpha roll my dog-but we are partners that understand that mom knows best. And I agree with Dennas mom about being careful of who and how people are handling your pup.

I agree. Your comment relating the issue to horses too really speaks to the situation. A lot of people don't realize how much their body language can affect the animals around them. In order to have respect you need to show calm consistency and respect from the beginning. My in-laws had a golden retriever who had bitten a family member because they tried to take a bone away from the dog. They were afraid of her and wouldn't try to take things from then on. The dog was running their house instead of being a happy member of the family. I taught the dog, and my in-laws, the trade game all in the matter of a few short minutes. All of sudden, they were confident, the dog was relaxed and happy to trade and eventually have high-value objects at taken away without issue. It's incredible how something addressed in a positive way can change everything!


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Hector

Well-Known Member
Step up your training. Be aware of your actions and make sure you're not saying one thing and your body language is saying another. Make training a big game, but make sure you follow through with your commands, but first spend ample amounts of time to make sure the dog knows what a command means. Play games, teach tricks, work around distractions, build an engaging relationship. Make sure to enforce rules and train forever lol.
 

Hiraeth

Well-Known Member
There's an interesting trend in the responses on this thread - the idea of stubbornness. I believe that 99% of the time, when someone says their dog is 'stubborn', it's actually because the dog is behaving like a dog and is performing whatever behavior it finds to be most rewarding at that point in time. It's not because the dog is being deliberately disobedient in order to make its owner angry.

The connotation of "stubborn" is that a dog is being purposefully willful or disobedient, which is a problem for a few different reasons. First of all, dogs aren't input-output machines, they're opportunistic mammals with their own desires (that yes, are sometimes different than the desires of their human). For an example, if a dog blows off of a recall, the dog's thought process isn't "I'm not going to listen to my human to make my human angry!" The dog's thought process is "running around is more fun than running back to my human who is going to maybe punish me for running away or put a leash on me and end my fun!" A dog will almost always perform the most rewarding behavioral option available at any given point in time. So, if your dog is what you call 'stubborn' because your dog disobeys, the real question is this - how do you make obeying you more rewarding than disobeying you?

Secondly, the concept of "stubbornness" is problematic because it's an anthropomorphization. Dogs are humans, so attempting to label their behaviors with human traits can cause confusion and therefore a failure to understand how to deal with said problems.

And thirdly, when someone says their dog is "stubborn", it is blaming the bad or undesired behavior on the dog, not the human. So instead of saying "how can I make obeying me more rewarding?", people say "well, my dog is stubborn and he's perfectly trained but he just doesn't want to listen to me 50% of the time". If a dog doesn't listen, most of the time it's because the command hasn't been proofed well enough in environments with distractions, or the command was given at a bad time when it was unlikely to be obeyed.

Receiving respect from a dog is actually quite simple - train often, with positive reinforcement, and make listening to you be the most rewarding choice your dog can make. I do 4-5 training sessions each day with each of my dogs. The sessions last anywhere from 2-3 minutes. I end the sessions early if my dogs seem to lack interest or engagement. I introduce new commands weekly and alternate between reinforcing old commands and working on new ones in order to keep training unpredictable and interesting. I also usually have treats in my pocket or nearby so that I can randomly reward my dogs for good behaviors throughout the day. Between that and making sure they get enough exercise (2 leashed walks of 20-25 minutes and an off leash run in the park) every day, my two intact adolescent males choose to listen to me 99.99% of the time. And the other .01% they don't listen to me is my fault, not theirs.
 

Wilsy

Well-Known Member
Testing the limits is normal puppy to adolescent behavior, you just need to remain consistent with your training. With regard to people saying 'he knows his size' I would personally ignore them. When I owned a spaniel no one ever felt the need to comment on his behavior but soon as I got a DDB people seemed to think they had a right to make comments about Wilson and how I should train him. One minute I was told 'he knows his size' (because he purposefully or clumsily bumped into someone with his shoulder), then its 'he doesn't know how big he is' (because he was a bouncy excitable pup / adolescent dog). If your actual dog trainer says that to you then they should be backing it up with some training advice.