Making the switch

[JamieHalverson]

So I think we are going to do this. Lillie just turned a year old and we cannot get rid of her acne and recurrent ear infections. 28 day course of antibiotics just finished and within 2 days she started breaking out again; within a week her chin is covered with open, bleeding acne sores. She had ear infections while on the antibiotics, so I'm assuming that's yeast related. The zymox works great, but it's a constant cycle. I'm not 100% that it's food related since I haven't done an elimination diet, but I do know for sure that chicken makes her head explode, so there's at least that. I've managed all the things I think I can; no plastic bowls, wiping the chin after drinking, cleaning out her bowls and changing water, we use stridex pads daily... all to no avail. She's in pain and is now shying away from having her face or ears touched at all.

I already spend a small fortune in high quality kibble, so while I have not made any estimates what so ever, I don't think feeding raw can be that much more expensive, if at all. We have a great raw food supplier in the area, and my cousin raises organic grass fed free range whatever beef and pork, which we already buy for ourselves. We already have a freezer and Lillie being a year old alleviates a lot of my concerns as she's mostly done growing.

I'm not 100% on the whole prey model, there's some research indicating that our dogs have developed the need for some veggies and starch and such and that the barf diet may actually be better... not sure on that one either so obviously I have some research to do! We just got our free frequent buyer bag of kibble so we have enough for about 2 weeks, so that's going to be my goal no more kibble after this is gone, full switch by then.

 

[tmricciuto]

Good luck. I am still really on the fence as to when. I'm just a bit scared I'm going to mess them up, but Bella adores her turkey necks.

 

[marke]

maybe give some stuff called saccharomyces boulardii a try , it's pretty inexpensive , i used it a couple times , and i think it helped . it's a supplement , i think it actually is some type of yeast , but if you look into it they have a reason why it prevents the overgrowth of the yeast that causes ear infections . and it is not killed by antibiotics , and there are quite a few decent studies on it's effectiveness at preventing loose stools while taking antibiotics .....

 

[JamieHalverson]

Good luck. I am still really on the fence as to when. I'm just a bit scared I'm going to mess them up, but Bella adores her turkey necks.

I know, I was too scared myself while Lillie was groing. I worry enough that I'm doing everything right and feeding raw for the first time myself to a growing puppy was just not gonna happen. I do already supplement with some raw and they LOVE it so I'm excited/nervous, lol.

It's something I've had in the back of my mind for a long time, but never really had the impetus to make the change.

 

[JamieHalverson]

maybe give some stuff called saccharomyces boulardii a try , it's pretty inexpensive , i used it a couple times , and i think it helped . it's a supplement , i think it actually is some type of yeast , but if you look into it they have a reason why it prevents the overgrowth of the yeast that causes ear infections . and it is not killed by antibiotics , and there are quite a few decent studies on it's effectiveness at preventing loose stools while taking antibiotics .....

Thanks marke, I will definitely look into that!

 

[NYDDB]

Great news- she - and you- will be a devotee soon enough, I am sure. One thing though--- I would really caution you away from adding in veggies and starch, esp., starch--- as canines do not need them and can add to a yeast problem that you are trying to avoid. I have been researching as well as studying and learning from natural raw feeders and breeders who have been doing this for a very long time---they ALL stress this: there is no need for fruit/veggies/rice, etc. and they will cause issues, eventually. Please don't over complicate this- dogs are not humans; they do best on meat/bone/organs (and green tripe.) Simple! Dogs may have developed a "taste" for carbs, but it does not do them any favors in the long run...

Mateo has been raw-fed since he was a pup, and actually has no desire for any of that stuff; no begging, no interest. Just his raw meals, and he's satisfied... Also, he has no allergies, no skin issues...it works. JMO.

 

[DennasMom]

I'm guessing that primo kibble has probiotics in it... but it can't hurt to add more - especially after a round of antibiotics... if you haven't been doing that already, anyway.

I have a feeling you'll love feeding raw... I follow the basic 'whole prey model raw' guidelines, but also add in veggies (and some fruits) on a sort of random basis (a handful or two in a meal 3-4 days a week, plus trimmings daily as I prepare the humans' dinner)... I just don't count them in her totals for the day since they're relatively low calorie (and we adjust her amounts based on need and weight all the time, anyway). I don't give her starches in anything but a few treats, I've not read any articles suggesting those are beneficial - but greens and cruciferous veggies are in a lot of study results that show serious benefits (although I think those were added to kibble meals, not raw meals). The BARF descriptions I've read are pretty loosely worded... it's really hard to get a complete definition of a "Raw Meaty Bone"... but RMB's should be 50% of the diet... ?? that's too loose for me (an engineer) to work with.

Denna loves her fruit and veggies... sometimes I do think she's a cow, though...
Our last dog would NEVER consider eating plant-based materials... he was kibble-fed, and we never pushed the issue, thinking he was doing great without them.

For acne... have you looked at any homeopathic remedies? I had good luck (on me) using Hepar Sulph for adult acne... There may be some other immune booster options, too (which is how I consider homeopathic remedies... just a way to tell your immune system EXACTLY what you want it to focus on today).

Herbal supplements, such as burdock, area also know to help acne issues. But I haven't tested that one out, personally.

 

[JamieHalverson]

Great news- she - and you- will be a devotee soon enough, I am sure. One thing though--- I would really caution you away from adding in veggies and starch, esp., starch--- as canines do not need them and can add to a yeast problem that you are trying to avoid. I have been researching as well as studying and learning from natural raw feeders and breeders who have been doing this for a very long time---they ALL stress this: there is no need for fruit/veggies/rice, etc. and they will cause issues, eventually. Please don't over complicate this- dogs are not humans; they do best on meat/bone/organs (and green tripe.) Simple! Dogs may have developed a "taste" for carbs, but it does not do them any favors in the long run...Mateo has been raw-fed since he was a pup, and actually has no desire for any of that stuff; no begging, no interest. Just his raw meals, and he's satisfied... Also, he has no allergies, no skin issues...it works. JMO.

You know, I may just start her sooner rather than wait. Yogi can eat the kibble until it's gone and then I'll switch him. Honestly, we probably have enough in our freezer between the half pig and quarter cow we bought this year to have what we need, including some organs... I know most people start with chicken, but that's been ruled out for Lillie. I think we'll start with pork for a week and then add some beef.

I'm wondering though, since they already eat a variety of raw, isbit as important to start with one thing? They already eat raw fish, green tripe, marrow bones, lamb, duck feet, tripe...

 

[cj-sharpy]

Bravo to you on being brave enough to make the switch.
If your relative raises animals then there is a LOT of edible meat left over after butchery that has no value on the open market. Nearly all of it is edible for your pooch so it should actually work out pretty cheap to feed.
Think tripe, pizzles, cheeks etc etc. Also if he has connections at the slaughter house then any "spoiled" meat is a good freebie. Not rancid obviously, but I know my supplier got a full cow that had been out of the freezer 1min longer than allowed.


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[JamieHalverson]

Bravo to you on being brave enough to make the switch. If your relative raises animals then there is a LOT of edible meat left over after butchery that has no value on the open market. Nearly all of it is edible for your pooch so it should actually work out pretty cheap to feed. Think tripe, pizzles, cheeks etc etc. Also if he has connections at the slaughter house then any "spoiled" meat is a good freebie. Not rancid obviously, but I know my supplier got a full cow that had been out of the freezer 1min longer than allowed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes! I just talked to him about organs, feet, hooves, tails etc. I'll see him this weekend and talk more. He has a very small farm, small enough that he has to have enough people ready to purchase beef before he slaughters. I'm sure we can work something out.

 

[JamieHalverson]

Yep, they are going to save me the stuff they usually throw away the next time they butcher pig.

Also, my boyfriend just came home with a big bucket of pan fish for the dogs! They have to be gutted and any sharp fins cut off, then frozen, but that is certainly a win win. He gets to go fishing and I get free dog food, lol.

 

[JamieHalverson]

Ok, gutting these little bastards was one of the grossest things ever... They are so small, I can't imagine they could swallow a hook. Does anyone know if it's really necessary to gut them? Or can I just freeze them and feed them whole?

 

[angelbears]

As long as you are 100% sure that there are no hooks in the fish. I feed whole smelt and anchovy.

 

[JamieHalverson]

As long as you are 100% sure that there are no hooks in the fish. I feed whole smelt and anchovy.

These are pretty small, they are pan fish (perch and crappies) that would have been too small to bother filleting and if I wasn't feeding them to dogs, would have been thrown back. The fishermen I've asked said there's no way they could swallow a hook.

 

[marke]

The fishermen I've asked said there's no way they could swallow a hook.

i've caught many small panfish , even chubs i couldn't get my hook out of .......hooks come pretty small , the river by me gets fly fished a lot , and folks use a lot of size 12, 14 salmon egg hooks .... personally i think it's a legitimate concern ..... jmo

 

[JamieHalverson]

I guess I could never be 100% sure without gutting the fish that there isn't a hook in there. It's a lot of work for a little fish... But I will probably get faster and less grossed out the more I do.

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[Igni06]

Congrats on switching to raw! Your dogs will love it. I hope Lillies condition will improve soon.

 

[JamieHalverson]

So this is what Lillie thinks about fish so far

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[JamieHalverson]

So she is picking it up and walking around with it, then setting it down again. And this is no longer my lounge chair...

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[dpenning]

ROFL. I agree, poor girl, it IS a sea monster.


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