Looking into getting a boerboel

Discussion in 'Boerboel' started by Kenneth Smith Jr, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I don't understand posting the first video you find. Nor do I understand posting something and then getting upset when people "analyze" or ask for clarification about something. It's no different than posting an article that hasn't been fully read and understood. Or commenting on someone else's posting of information that hasn't been read fully. It messes with the credibility of the information given.

    I say again, this board is for discussion. It's for analyzing. It's for sharing information and learning. One can always learn something if they keep an open mind. We have many very knowledgeable members. I know I've learned a lot from them.
    glen likes this.
  2. kingmark

    kingmark Active Member

    Exactly as jack would said :) we are here to help our dogs not to argue. Did you look in to that taurine defficency facebook page? I would like to hear what you think of that it has a lot of information about DCM and food related.
  3. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I haven't, Kingmark. I've had some things going on, but hopefully I'll have time in the near future.
  4. I assume when you say work the puppy at 5 weeks you mean develop play and prey drive? A 5 week old puppy that display this kind of drive; should go to an owner who understands how to work and develop this puppy into a good working dog. And not to an owner looking for a couch potatoes or to an owner who may think they are looking for a protection dog but have no clue how to continue the proper training. This is the situation I’m seeing now with my Corso. I just assume cause she is a Corso (and all Corso are described as great guard and protection dog) she would be a great protection dog. I have learned this is not the case. The kind of dog one gets is dictated by the breeder and how they breed them. The kind of dog one gets is determined by the interest of the breeder ( breeder more interested in showing this dog may not have the confidence to do certain things) whereas a breeder interested in scent work may imprint their puppies at a early age to be great trackers. A breeder with a strong interest in doc diving may start at the appropriate age exposing their puppies to water etc. My female Corso is the first mastiff ever owner. We have both have learned a lot and we both continue to learn. I love working her we both need to be active; sitting around is not our personalities. Thus my next dog hopefully will match our personalities.
  5. Steven C

    Steven C Active Member

    Just like you in the last 2 years ive learned from the mistakes I made which I will not make again. Imprinting from 5 weeks is basically getting adjusted to marking with a clicker and rewards. Getting the dog used to taking commands and making him work to get rewards. This will get any dog in far more tune with you than just getting a dog from a breeder that has done zero imprinting. In shepherds, you have breeders selling them with great lines for 700 and you have breeders selling the same lines for 2000. Why the extra money? Not the lines, but the imprinting. When you get a puppy that has been worked from 5 weeks it makes life so much easier and you get a much more educated dog. The same should be done with Corso, Boerboel, Dogues and so on as they are working dogs.

    This will also guarantee that the breeder makes the right match as they really know how the dog is. At 8 weeks they will know the drives, the nerves and the other abilities where other breeders are simply taking educated guesses at best. Drives can be worked on later, nerves are super important during the early puppy stages.

    A good example of that is getting a puppy at 10- 11 weeks old that has been pissing whenever it wants because the breeder leaves them outside all day is an absolute nightmare to train with a Corso, it took me forever to fix this and what a waste of time it was. The breeder should have been imprinting the dogs to go out, piss and come back in. Not go out play piss when they want and stay out for an hour then go back in. Learned and will never make that mistake again although with certain breeds they learn potty train in weeks no matter what.

    "The kind of dog one gets is determined by the interest of the breeder ( breeder more interested in showing this dog may not have the confidence to do certain things) whereas a breeder interested in scent work may imprint their puppies at a early age to be great trackers. A breeder with a strong interest in doc diving may start at the appropriate age exposing their puppies to water etc. "

    Not really as you can go purchase an imprinted police dog and make it an ipo dog, or a rat catching, or a scent dog or even a service dog. Imprinting gets it ready for learning no matter what the breeder imprinted for. Also all this is not to say one cant get a nice drivy rescue and train it to be a super dog because there are tons of perfect rescue dogs that want to learn and work. Their owners didn't know how to work them or control them.
    Kenneth Smith Jr likes this.
  6. So Steven, how do I get around a breeder that doesn’t imprint puppies or determined the temperament of the puppies? I was planning to visit the breeder periodically once she have the puppies to assess them via drive and actually ask if I can do my own temperament test.
  7. Steven C

    Steven C Active Member

    One of the changes I am making is going only to breeders from now on that deal with working puppies. All of them typically imprint while very young and will have a tremendous grasp on the abilities of each puppy. These breeders work this daily so even if your allowed to go it will likely not be as much time as you need to do it. Also you need to learn how to effectively mark and reward and to be honest I have only watched videos of this being done w 5 week old pups. Mike Suttle in WV does it daily. He trains military handlers and gives classes on how to work working dogs, I am considering even though its kind of expensive.
    You want to make sure you don't get a nerve bag, very important. So when you go, make the dogs 1 at a time follow you into weird places or noisy conditions and make sure he doesn't back away. This guy that has a company that uses Minks to kills rats needed a dog to track the minks, so he went and tested nerves by walking into a stream and dense woods and he chose the one who stayed with him best.

    Good questions so I would ask the breeders these questions and see which ones have the right answers. So many just breed and don't really do anything. How would you test temperament?
    Kenneth Smith Jr likes this.
  8. Their is temperament test I believe called Volhound test. I’ve seen it done on YouTube. The breeders perform this test giving a score for each which ranges between 1-5. Test is usually done at 7 weeks. Getting my girl I just assume all Corso have the courageous strong characteristics. Only to realized not so. my girl still at 22 months displays some fear over things such as trash cans and cars in parking lots. I started exposing her to things soon as she arrived in my home. Today I still take her to parking lots we walk around or sit (with me not saying anything to her) I’m basically waiting to see her shaking decrease and her head stand up with walking. When I see these things less shaking and her body stance improved we walk back to the car. I drive to a different location to repeat the process. But your suggestion of meeting each puppy individually and walking some place different that may scary to a puppy only to see which dog will stay with me is a good idea. I am thankful for my girl due to the fact had I gotten a dog with a lot of drive I may not have been able to handle. Cause of being a new owner of a large breed. So with trail and error I am constantly learning and thinking how can improve with my training etc. so when get next dog I know what I’m looking for and what training plan to do. Thank you again.
  9. BlackShadowCaneCorso

    BlackShadowCaneCorso Super Moderator Staff Member

    If you want a working prospect then find a breeder that has titles (not just those that say they work in it but have achieved nothing) in the venue you are looking to compete in. Get out to meet their dogs before they have puppies on the ground, find events that dogs they have bred are competing in, ask in individuals that have their lines and are working with their dogs about them. These breeders can be just as strict as when placing pups as show homes can be in that if you say you are going to work them then you have to work them and title them, they don't let working prospects go to just anyone any more than a show home would. I have not looked into Boerboel kennels deep enough to find those that are working and titling their dogs in venues I am interested in (like I said, my research takes me years, which is fine as I still have enough corso here to not need a puppy any time soon.) but am familiar with corso working kennels or know who to make contact with to check on working kennels.

    If the dogs are at the breeders at time of visit, they are likely familiar with everything there and aren't going to have a weird place to follow you to and no offense there is no way in hell someone is leaving my property with each of my puppies without supervision.

    A lot of breeders are using Puppy Culture to advance their puppies and their development now (you can google search them for complete details) and there are also many that are using Volhard's test. (scoring of 1-6) One thing to remember is Volhard's test was developed for labs so be aware of this when dealing with the "socialization" aspect of the test. Also this test needs to be performed by individuals not known to the puppies, in an unfamiliar place. Doing the test at the breeder's house with the breeder there is not an accurate assessment. Also I would ask to have the video each puppy's test so you get an idea of how the pups behaved. In the past we have supplied the test results to the puppies new homes with details of what each item tested was and their puppy's score. However phones are so much more advanced now that video taping each puppy would be great, so would need 3 unfamiliar people there. Person bringing each puppy in individually, the actual evaluator and the individual doing the testing.

    Furnishing the new puppy homes with a check list of stuff they should continue to expose their puppy too as well as asking for feed back for new things they might have encountered that the breeder might not have thought of will allow the breeder to grow their list and allow them to improve as well.

    After the dog is 12 months I think you can do the ATT which is similar to you CGC/CGN with a couple of different components at the end for the stranger that should be evaluated properly based on the breed.
    Kenneth Smith Jr likes this.
  10. Steven C

    Steven C Active Member

    Except especially in mastiff when you want a personal protection prospect, there are no titles involved. You just have to look at the kennel itself and maybe hear from people. My kennel in Ukraine has no titled dogs and mine is a 100% working dog. I don't know of any titles in guarding or personal protection, but maybe there is. There certainly won't be with Boerboel. Only show which I would veer away from. Some of us like to do hobby IPO and not actually go for titles, too stressful. lol

    Many or most breeders are in rural or semi rural areas in country type cities, where they have water sources or dense wood areas and the breeder will walk nearby as you do the testing.
  11. Thank you sorry to said but I have not found any Boerboels breeders who worked their dogs for titles. They will say they are great family dogs with great protection and guard instincts. That is how this topic started. I was concerned if I get a boerboel
  12. Not many Boerboels breeder work their dogs for titles. Not sure cause relatively a new breed to this country and not many trainers have worked with this breed or breeders and thus owners have no interest and only want a family pet dog(which is ok also). I am finding my girl if not worked gets bored and once bored become destructive. When we work you can see it in her eyes how much she enjoys our time together. Thus she is more calm relax after training. I could be wrong but find it hard to have a large breed lying around doing nothing.
  13. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    random thoughts

    nerve bag pups and dogs are made , not born ……..

    if you got a skittish dog in the house , never put the dog in any circumstance where their insecurity manifest itself around a pup you don't want acting like that , dogs learn from dogs better than they do people …….

    "working " is a pretty vague term , dogs producing pups in a puppymill are working , a junkyard dog is working ……. I've known some puppymillers who marketed their pups based on the premise they "work" their dogs , guy bought a bite sleeve , or a tug ……. as blackshadow says , "working your lines" can be a very low bar ………

    as far as "imprinting" pups , personally I think the only thing a breeder has to do with their pups is expose them to the most possible new stuff and situations as is possible , the more the better , and do it appropriately so as not to make an as mentioned "nerve bag" out of their pups …… an example i'd do is use a lawnmower at a distance with adult dogs around , i'd end up with a bunch of pups that were not noise sensitive , i'd have 8 week old pups i'd have to make move to cut the lawn …. i'd drop their pans every time I was going to feed them , i'd take them in the woods with their mom , dad , aunt , uncle , and let them do or go wherever they wanted with as little intervention as possible , let them lead , bold dogs teaching pups to be bold ….... milk jugs filled with rocks , balloons , plastic bags blowing around the yard ,ect…. as far as imprinting , the only imprinting i'd worry about is "imprinting" them to people , from the first second of their lives , and everyday they are here ....... I have never turned out a timid dog , not one ……….. I've heard about this "working" your dog crap so much it almost makes me nauseous .............

    don't know about puppy test , but I would bring a tug , i'd like a pup I had to pry off it , i'd like pups that ran to me , i'd like a pup that got over a scare and forgot about it as soon as I distracted them with play …….. i'd do as blackshadow said in taking them out on their own , folks who would test my pups this way would be impressed as it would be far from the first time it had been done to them ................

    my pups are left outside 24/7/365 , they are simple to housebreak , they pick up on the fact that inside is not outside real easy , keep them close to access to outside , and catch them a couple times , adult dogs do help ...... just as kennel raised pups prefer to use cement , I've had them that wouldn't use the grass , they prefer to go outside ....... just as paper trained pups prefer to use paper ....... I think the last time I housebroke a dog was 1992 ............ then I figured out they can housebreak themselves much easier
    glen and Kenneth Smith Jr like this.
  14. Steven C

    Steven C Active Member

    In regards to dogs learning more or performing tasks-

    Things have changed, old school thoughts have gone away and that goes for dogs learning abilities of the old school also. Tennis players hit harder and more spin, bodybuilders have gotten twice as big, baseball bats hit further and so on. Same goes for dogs, people now have dogs doing everything that they never used to do. You may think a working dog is a junk yard dog, but that's simply not the case. Crime is skyrocketing gun rights are disappearing, dogs are needed more and more to perform certain tasks that might sound weird for old schoolers, but its the truth.

    Imprinting may not have been the thing then, but today because the tasks we have dogs do are so far advanced, imprinting is the way it happens much easier.

    Believe in working dogs or high level training or not, its happening dogs are doing much more than ever before and its great. As this country becomes South America, crime is not getting any lower. I think I heard a comment earlier as to why a protection dog is needed and I thought to myself, this guy must live on Mayberry street or the prarie because where im at in a decade has changed to a chaotic nightmare. Unfortunately people never change until something bad happens. I sit here and wonder if that girl jogging in NYC would still be alive today if she had a dog jogging with her.
  15. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    what exactly new improved thing are dogs doing ?

    personally , with the internet I've seen the growth in numbers of obviously unqualified "dog trainers " and protection dog experts , I seen enough that when someone post a belief , for me it pigeon holes them as far as their experience ……. buy a sleeve and watch a couple youtube videos of a couple folks who don't have a clue , then make your own even more clueless video so someone can watch it and make their own even more clueless video , so you too can make a timid , defensive , mistrustful ,fear biting dangerous dog to protect you , bite your kids their friends , the delivery man , the kid next door jumping your fence to get his ball ……… junkyard dog in the car lot on about 85th and Detroit , Cleveland (north side ) is more a working dog than most protection sport folks will likely ever have or need …… if you really think a dog is capable of discerning on their own who should and shouldn't be bit , you have quite a bit more to experience and see before you can get me to take this seriously ….

    I got plenty of guns and no problem getting more should I desire them ……….
    Boxergirl, Kenneth Smith Jr and glen like this.
  16. glen

    glen Super Moderator Staff Member

    Marke rhis is exactly what ime dealing with right now, people watching youtube thinking they are trainers, owners wanting a protection dog, going at a dog with a sleeve giving them a shake and making them fear aggressive, there being told to get females if theyve never owned the breeds before as there easier, your reply to me on your experience helped me on confronting the wanna be trainer,
    Iv got 3 male ccs iv trained none to protect me, iv put a lot of work in, easiest dogs to toilet train, iv trained them not to eat food unless we give it, thats to protect them, very easy for people to chuck poison over.
    Iv got 3 males theyve got natural protection of us its been tested unfortunatly but when i said leave they did it, buds the one i have to watch out of them all.
    I totally agree with all you have said, a dog is not capable of knowing who they should and shouldnt attack, this poor girl that im helping was so fear aggressive and that down to her owner thinking it was a good idea to try and train her to be a protection dog.
    We cant have guns here marke wish we could, the crime is increasing people are getting hurt in there homes, but im proud to say iv not made my dogs unpredictable killers, my dogs do protect, iv seen it, iv seen how they work, iv not had to train with a sleeve, train and treat them right, thats all they need.
    Marke i would be honoured to own one of your pups,
    marke and Boxergirl like this.
  17. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I would also be honored to own one of Marke's pups. I think he does it right.
    marke likes this.
  18. Glen that happened to me. Being new to the breed and saying to breeder we would like a guard dog. He stated female are more protective. So we have a beautiful female Corso. And when I got her she displayed some mild nervousness which I assumed was do to being in a new place. 22 months later she at times still display fear (mainly parking lots and streets with busy traffic) great dog strong prey/play and food drive, but more prey and play. I did all the basic training and socializing. But will say she came out of her shell when we start working with a great trainer. He does IPO training and has titled several Corso in IPO. He totally understand the breed. Again I love the sport of IPO cause of what it consists of. Honestly with the laws I really don’t want a dog that bites (protection) cause once she bites someone my home owner insurance either increases or they drop me. We will get sued and they will euthanasia my dog. So honestly it is not worth it. I just want a well behave family dog.
    marke likes this.
  19. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    I would've payed folks like you two to take on my pups …...I find placing pups is the absolute worst part of breeding dogs , I dreaded it every time ........ I don't know if it's the type and the folks it attracts , or it's like that for all breeds ……. I was lucky with a lot of pups , as a lot of folks who had my dogs would want another , those would be proven owners ……

    I cannot imagine not being allowed to have guns , my dogs only need to alert me ….... i'd imagine the criminals there have them ? it's the law abiding folks who don't ….. in my case someone with bad intentions problem isn't my dogs …………..
    BlackShadowCaneCorso and glen like this.
  20. glen

    glen Super Moderator Staff Member

    Im glad youve found a trainer that understands the breed, my eldest cc i got at 13 weeks, if he had got into the wrong hands he wouldve been a dangerous dog, he was so testing, stubborn, dog aggressive, he took over our life, hes perfect with family hes a nanny dog with pups an kids, he would do anything glen told him to do, he tested me so many times, budcuss as taught me a lot.
    Your girls still young, the fears you see in her now will probably leave, you say parking lots are her fear, be confident in those places, what you feel will travel down the leash,
    Kenneth Smith Jr likes this.

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