Large Breed puppy vs. Large Breed Adult

[anyeone]

I've had several people say to feed the English Mastiff puppy large breed adult food rather than large breed puppy so the dog doesn't grow too fast.

Well, while trying to choose a food I went to dogfoodproject and other sites and started comparing nutrition labels and I noticed for both Eagle Pack (which the breeder uses) and Innova Large Breed, the puppy food has fewer calories per cup than the adult food. So I compared the nutritional content of the two from Innova and for the most part they are very similar, although the puppy food is a bit higher in Vitamins C, E, and K. The biggest difference is the puppy food does not contain glucosamine or chondrotoin. So I am now guessing that the reason that mastiff folks like to feed the adult food is to get those in at a younger age?

Is there some other consideration here I am missing? Because if not then it seems to me the ideal solution is to feed the puppy food and then add a glucosamine / chondrotoin supplement for the joint health if it doesn't cause problems starting it young. (My pup is 4 months old).

Thoughts?

 

[tomcat]

Just having acquired my first Mastiff puppy, I will be the first to admit that I don't know a whole lot about what works best for large breed puppies. BUT, I can tell you these things:

1) Most chondrotin and glucosamine in dog foods is there as a marketing ploy. Very few, if any, brands have enough in the food to make a difference in joint health.

2) As you mention, lower calories per cup in the puppy food. This is a good thing. The adult food may be too energy dense.

3) The adult food may have too much calcium on a per calorie basis.

This information is from veterinary nutritionists, so I would believe it to be true. SOOOO...go with the large breed puppy formula.

 

[JstLovesFilas]

Okay... don't feed puppy food, feed a good quality adult food. Keep protein to 20% and below.. 99% of the dogs don't need higher than that...

I was feeding Canidae and all the dogs did okay - but recently changed to Premium Edge Adult. I'm still not convinced that the Shorthair's Seizures weren't caused from the food at the time. I went from all life stages Canidae to Platinum Canidae with a lower protein level and he quit having seizures....

A lot of people like feeding raw too - especially the Fila people.
Supplemental oils is a good thing for all large breeds for good joint health.

These are the recommended supplements by Dr. Peck (Diplomat Veterinarian - this is the equivalent of a human specialist)
Give Omega 3 fish oil with efa, EPA and DHA . Two twice a day. (vitacost Mega-efa)

Move free (human stuff) Advanced. Made by Schiff. Two twice a day. It has Glucosamine, chondrotin, MSM, and hyaluranic acid.

 

[Renee]

I've started two Filas out on Innova all stages, then switched to EVO RM once they were older. Totally thrilled with the results

Especially the fact that my 145 pound girl leaves less on the ground than most people's 30 pound dogs!

 

[Zoom]

It's not so much the calories as the calcium/phosophorus ratios and protein levels. Most puppy foods are very high in calcium, which leads to overly-rapid growth for the big dogs, leading to joint issues later on down the road. Adult foods or all-life stages foods are good ways to go, as is raw. For some reason, the protein levels in dry kibble are processed differently than the protein levels in raw meat; dogs that have issues on high-protein kibble do just fine on raw.

 

[JstLovesFilas]

I know quite a few people that do the raw and are thrilled with it. My male GSP gags when you give him something raw... <shaking head> and he's the bird dog. It's okay to kill it or it's okay to point it - anything after that and I'm on my own... lol If it wasn't for Chipper I think I would give raw a go...

 

[Zoom]

If I had more freezer space, I'd be on raw in a heartbeat. We're just doing random bits of it for now.

 

[JstLovesFilas]

If I lived where they have deals on meats I would too - I give Bo some raw chicken stuff inside the chicken... some raw hamburger - well, everyone but Chipper gets the goodies - I still feed everyone raw bones. Everyone swears by it that has gone to it.

 

[anyeone]

Hm... comparing protein and calcium in the large breed puppy vs. large breed adult of some good brands (Innova, Wellness):

Wellness lg breed adult:
Ca - not less than 1.2%
P - not less than 0.9%
Protein - not less than 25%

Wellness lg breed puppy:
Ca - not less than 1.1%, not more than 1.4%
P - not less than 0.9%, not more than 1.1%
Protein - not less than 26%

Looks like the puppy levels are more controlled. We don't know what the max is in the adult.

Innova lg breed adult:
Calcium
0.9 %
Phosphorous
0.7 %
Protein 25.85 %

Innova lg breed puppy:
Calcium
0.9 %
Phosphorous
0.72 %
Protein 24.48 %

Very little difference (though no range reported, just a single stat).

It looks to me like with at least some of the better brands of dog food they are actively trying to control large breed growth and I'm still not seeing a good reason to feed the adult food. Perhaps with poorer quality feeds the adult food is still the way to go.

Innova Lg Breed puppy gave him loose stools so I am trying the Wellness since it is slightly higher in fiber. I think he likes the flavor a little better too, he's actually finishing his meals in one sitting now which he never did before. *fingers crossed*

Almost all the "good" brand large breed foods had at least 24% protein whether it was the adult or the puppy variety. I looked at Solid Gold and Eagle pack also (though we can't get Eagle Pack puppy in TX so I didn't bother looking closely at it).

I was thinking about getting the glucosamine/chondroitin from the pharmacy instead of the pet store - same stuff, about 5x cheaper!

Thanks for the feedback, all! I know doggie nutrition is almost like religion to many folks

 

[anyeone]

Brownie *loves* the Wellness and his stools are a bit firmer, so I'm happy. I started adding about a tablespoon of Wellness 95% canned to his kibble as well since he is a bit too underweight and he has been SCARFING his food down ever since. Two weeks ago, this dog would take a half hour to finish his breakfast, now he vacuums it in about two minutes!

 

[Mdawn]

I would absolutely LOVE to feed RAW...I just don't have the freezer space to do it now but I would in a heartbeat if I did.

When Uallis was a puppy, I fed him Eagle Pack Holistic Select Large and Giant breed puppy...then I switched him to Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul, THEN because of some allergy issues, switched him to Taste of the Wild. I would have liked to keep him on Eagle Pack but couldn't get it locally and had to order it online. However, now the store where I buy dog food just starting getting in Eagle Pack (I wonder if it was my continued harping...???) but I'll soon soon be switching him yet again BACK to Eagle Pack. He did better on it than any other dog food he's been on thus far.

 

[anyeone]

They don't sell Eagle Pack Large Breed Puppy here in Texas stores, supposedly because of the glucosamine and chondroitin added. One of the local pet stores implied that the state vet board wouldn't allow those additives in puppy foods.

I've got about a year and a half before he outgrows the Wellness Super5 LB Puppy - at that time maybe I'll try Eagle Pack adult since so many rave about it.