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Discussion in 'Training & Behavior' started by April Nicole, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. April Nicole

    April Nicole Well-Known Member

    Hi April, I can not figure out how to post this? Can you help me like you did before? Thanks MUCH!!!

    My husband & I are going thru hell with Max. He and 1 of the other young dos are at each others throat. We have broken up 3 fights in the past 24 hours. That is just the past 24 hours. Max has been neutered. Wefelt sure it with help with Max. It has with the females but Yogi a shepherdmix not so much. They are seperated at the moment. Is there anyone onhere that can give me some soundadvise???

    We will consider rehoming him if we knew he was going to the perfect home. He is beautiful, CKC registered, very healthy, an indoors dog (1oo% house trained and crate trained, loves people, loves the girls .... no males

    We are desperate, so desperate!

    Thanks!
    Deny

    I Posted this thread for Deny McKusker
     
  2. Michele

    Michele Super Moderator Staff Member

  3. glen

    glen Super Moderator Staff Member

    How old is he , whats he like with other dogs outside of your household
     
  4. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    i'd ask , do you know what they are fighting about ? do they fight when no one is around ?
     
  5. DenyMcKusker

    DenyMcKusker Member

    He will be 1 yr old on Nov. 16. He has been fine with friends dogs that have come over. He has been fine fine with Yogi(shepherd) and Peanut... Great Dane/Pittie mix. This is new. He has been raised with Yogi and Peanut since he was 7 weeks old. I am currently researching for the perfect Muzzle. One that fits good but also comfortable. I am so open to advice. Thanks for responding!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. DenyMcKusker

    DenyMcKusker Member

    I don't know what they are fighting about. 2 fights broke out in the bedroom and then 1 in the living area. I have not left them alone once we knew they were fighting. We have a guest house on the property so I ls. I have a pretty sound rotation going on. I am terrified to do that. When Max makes takes that leap it takes a very strong man to hold him back. That would not be me. My husband is able but he travels so until he is home I have to rotate. I am sure that this is related to sexual maturity but then now what? Your input would be greatly appreciate it and maybe an idea on a mask made for the Neo.

    Thank you very much!!!
     
  7. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    I had a friend that was away from home a lot for his work . they raised American bulldogs , he bought his wife a cattle prod … I've got a dog now will fight over me , my attention ……… I think you got to spot it first , and distract , change the subject …… if a fight breaks out , imo , they need to know that's a life threatening behavior , with consequences from me , it is here …….. stopping when I get involved is a good smart pleasurable thing to do , not stopping not so much ……… I've had fights costed me thousands of dollars , been seriously bitten , I take it seriously , and my dogs know it ……….. as far as desensitizing them , I got kennels ,I just house them next to each other , force them to sleep next to each other until they give up , they always have …….. my approach to behaviors that are life threatening are definitely not correction free …………..
     
  8. DenyMcKusker

    DenyMcKusker Member

    I am going to assume your friends wife was successful with the cattle prod. I have thought about getting 1 but just haven't. Our propane guy was delivering and first thing he said to me when he met the pack is "cattle prod" They have them at tractor supply and they come in 2 strengths. I will go strong.
    I think I will follow your footsteps just a bit. My husband looks way worse than me but we both have some VERY unpleasant battle wounds. Thank you for taking the time!!!
    Deny
     
  9. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    yes , it kept her from getting hurt ……. if you correct him for fighting , make sure you him and everybody involved recover as quickly as possible , distract from the situation asap so he doesn't get confused …. after i'd break up a fight , often i'll call everybody to the kitchen and give them food , make them do stuff ………. I do know you can teach a dog that fighting is not a good behavior …….. I don't believe you can ever eliminate the feeling they get , but they can be taught to control it better , when I spot it I distract asap , change the subject …...
     
  10. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I think that teaching a dog that it's not okay to fight when you're around is one thing, but I would never leave a fighting dog unsupervised with the others. I also think that you have to be careful and really know your dog because the kind of correction Marke is talking about is pretty much a "come to Jesus" moment. That can be very dangerous if you have a dog that redirects when they're aroused.

    I guess I also think that there really are some dogs that you just will never be able to trust. A one year old dog really isn't coming into their temperament, imo. They're being adolescent asses. If that's all it is, then handling it the correct way for your dog may take care of the problem. If it's just an indicator of what you'll be seeing when he's closer to two - which is when I feel they really start to come into their temperament - then you have a bigger issue. Your safety, your husband's safety, and the safety of your other dogs is paramount. I'm not saying Marke's suggestion won't work. Clearly it's worked for him and I know it's worked for others. It doesn't work for everyone or for every situation. I would strongly suggest contacting a certified behaviorist, if you have one in your area. I would also suggest crating and rotating, if that's possible. For sure crating when you can't 100% supervise.

    I do agree with most of what Marke is saying. Especially this: "if you correct him for fighting , make sure you him and everybody involved recover as quickly as possible , distract from the situation asap so he doesn't get confused …. after i'd break up a fight , often i'll call everybody to the kitchen and give them food , make them do stuff ………. I do know you can teach a dog that fighting is not a good behavior …….. I don't believe you can ever eliminate the feeling they get , but they can be taught to control it better , when I spot it I distract asap , change the subject ….." I think this is excellent advice for all situations that require correction of any kind.

    Study your dogs. Learn the subtle signs that indicate Max is getting ready to attack so you can diffuse any situation before it arises. Work heavily on impulse control exercises and solid leave it and place commands. The leave it and place can diffuse a situation if you catch it before it turns into a fight. (Usually it won't work during a fight because they aren't able to even hear you. They're too aroused.) If you can't be 100% in the moment and controlling interactions and watching body language then I would separate the dogs. Plenty of people crate and rotate. I do believe that some dogs just take a dislike to certain other dogs and can't be trusted around them.
     
    Nik likes this.
  11. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I forgot. The muzzle. You want a basket muzzle that allows the dog to pant, drink, and take treats. Preferably with a strap over the top of the head that connects at the base of the back of the skull so the muzzle can't slip off. I have videos for acclimation to a muzzle that I can post for you if you like. It takes time and you want to make it very positive. And while a muzzle can prevent a biting incident, it won't do anything to prevent injury from a large dog jumping on a smaller one. I strongly feel all dogs should be acclimated to a muzzle, just in case one is ever necessary, but don't discount the damage a large and powerful dog can do simply by jumping on a smaller dog.
     
  12. DenyMcKusker

    DenyMcKusker Member

    Thanks so much guys. I will heed all advise. I am a stay at home Canine mommy so I have time. Boxergirl, I would really appreciate the video's when you get a chance. I will keep you posted and really, THANKS!!! I don't feel so alone at the moment!
     
  13. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    This one was very helpful for Ella.



    This is Kikopup's muzzle training video. She has several about capturing calmness and a calm chin rest that are very helpful as well, so you may want to search YouTube for those.

     
  14. DenyMcKusker

    DenyMcKusker Member

    Great video's. I'm off to start some training. Thank you!!!
     
  15. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    not sure what a "come to jesus "correction is , we maybe talking about different type of dogs , but the dogs i'm talking about are dogs need to straighten up their behavior or they will be seeing Jesus , and I've known folks trained dogs like high jumpin mikie , Banuelos predator , niko , ………. I was raised by a guy named Chuck Vinci , we had ed faron's dogs , my God daughters father owned little George , i'm not talking pet bulls ……. dog fighting was not a felony at that time ……. I've had bordeauxs that made those dogs look like lassie when it came to dog aggression …….. the American bulldogs my friends raised were linebred /inbred on legitimate "man killers" , dogs passed around that needed kept in cages …… many of their breedings producing offspring achieving some of the highest protection titles that can be gotten, the breeding never intended for producing pets .....…..you'd need to know them to truly appreciate what a dog with that temperament is like ……I remember being said about peelers chief , think of the meanest dog you've ever met as fire , chief would be an atomic bomb , and that was among folks who bred "mean" dogs . jdj got rebel rouser back because he attacked everybody , nobody could handle him , and he linebred on him , to mean bitches …….

    i'm going to guess Deny's dogs don't fight when she's not around ……. as far as teaching a dog not to fight when your not around , you can't , what you do is teach them not to fight when your around …... don't give them to chance to fight when your not around .....… the longer they don't exhibit a behavior , the better the chance they won't …….

    as far as redirecting , that depends on the dog , my dogs don't , they pretty much get a good bite and hold until they can get a better one ........... but it is why I told my wife and kids to never try to break up a fight should it happen ........ very rarely were there ever fights when the dogs were alone ........ I do know folks that been seriously mauled breaking up a fight …… not knowing Deny or her dogs , a muzzle may be an excellent idea …….
     
    glen likes this.
  16. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    A "come to Jesus" moment is a very harsh, and often physical, correction. That can backfire, depending on the dog, the correction given, and the person. Since we don't know Deny's dogs I think that it's important to advise exercising caution when suggesting administering such a correction. I also think a professional should be consulted.

    I don't think we're in disagreement, Marke. I'm just suggesting being cautious.
     
    glen likes this.
  17. Nik

    Nik Well-Known Member

    Also what constitutes a "come to Jesus" moment is very different dependent on the dog. For example Kahlua is so sensitive to our displeasure that yelling at her constitutes that for her. She hates us to be unhappy with her and while she can get resource guardy towards our Diesel all it takes is a raised voice and making sure she knows it is directed at her for her to back off real quickly. Diesel on the other hand couldn't care less whether we are unhappy with him. Luckily Diesel doesn't have an ounce of dog aggression in him.
     
  18. DenyMcKusker

    DenyMcKusker Member

    I am a little person. Max far our weighs me. so I have to look way bigger than I am. A prong helps. I have been rehabilitating Pitties for 30 years. Most of them run for cover when they see Max all worked up. Last night my husband was taking Max out for his nightly run around the property. He thought Yogi (shepherd mix) was in. It was dark out and Yogi is black. I heard Jeff holler for me and I ran out to help. I was able to back off 1 of the other dogs. I could see a clean shot at Yogi's hind legs and using the wheel barrel method I was able to get him to release and secured him in the laundry room. My arms are scarred from my fingers to my shoulder. My husbands legs look they have been thru a blender. We have had a few trips to the ER. We have refused to tell them one of our dogs did it. Jeff's last trip to the ER he finally convinced them he got nailed by a T Post. He is a land surveyor. He can jump fences. If you turn them in they are in for a real bad time.
    I have a basket muzzle for Max. I now know I need to use 1 with Yogi. I wonder, is this for the rest of my life or their lives? What a drag!!! Every fight I have broken up I was able to reunite them farely quickly. I am not sure that will ever happen with Max and Yogi.

    Finding a pro that is up to speed on all this fighting stuff. I hired 1. She was useless. I will keep looking. I know I need this kind of help.

    I really appreciate all y'alls guidance as I journey thru this unchartered territory. Seriously thanks!

    Deny
     
  19. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    some random thoughts ...….sounds dangerous to me …. no doubt some dogs do redirect , dogs that wildy bite are more likely to be among those dogs …… but breaking them up by hand , a cattle prod or shock collars would be safer ……from what I've seen , dogs in a fight that bite anything they see are out of control , a slap in the face (shock) just may get their attention ……. as nik said and i'm sure you know , the severity of correction required , and a dog can take varies …… some dogs are soft and can't even handle a loud voice , some dogs are hard and will take a correction that could crush a softer dog for life in stride ……… I am positive you can teach dogs not to fight , I've done it many times …….. I had two sisters that after about 3 yrs I trusted them alone together for the rest of their lives ……… if your dogs sleep in crates , put their crates near or next to each other ………. I may be in the minority here , but I believe dogs need to respect their owners all the times , and whatever is required to get to that understanding should be on the table , I guarantee it's kinder than the alternative …. I've seen those problem dogs get passed around , very seldom do they have a long or decent life ….. some dogs fight harder when they feel pain , not many , they are few and far between ….. and I've had plenty of dogs I wouldn't even think of using even a semi-harsh correction on ……...
     
    glen likes this.
  20. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    Deny, how are things going?
     

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