Guarding Instincts?

[Ghostsword]

Guardian breeds are a funny bunch. Out of a litter not all will engage an intruder, and it takes training to actually show the dog that is ok to bite.

I also think that anything under 12 months is not needed, just boost the dog confidence, that is all its needed. After 12-18 months put the dog to a test. If having a guard dog is important get the dog tested. The dog fails try to understand why it has failed.

Now this is when it gets tricky. If having a guardian breed is important, and the dog fails what are you to do? You can train the dog, show him what to do. If he really does not get it... Well, me, I will get rid of it, but guarding and protection is the reason for me to have a dog.

Boerboels are nice guard dogs, but they have been "tamed", a lit has been lost through selection, in the lookout for family dogs a lot of aggressive tendencies have been lost.

My wife is south african and I go often back home to Cape Town. Most people that want a guard dog will stick with a boerboel mix. They mix it with pits or africanis, and get a mean piece of dog that would tear apart a burglar, or die trying. But in south africa crime is insane. burglars if they get into your home they will kill you for a mobile phone.

So your 3 month pup is scared... It is a pup. Show her that all is ok, and get her used to as many sounds as possible, do not scare the pup or try hard techniques. Want to protect your wife and daughter? Get an adult dog, this one may take a while to grow up.



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Luis
@ghostsword

 

[Ghostsword]

Yea I've told many clients with" agressive" dogs that their dog just aint big enough to scare me. Thats not to say it aint big enough to hurt me, but it will absolutly not win that fight. If the "Show" dont scare a person off, well you likely got some big issues.

Well said.. my rule is that is a dog can be lifted with one arm then on a one to one fight the dog would lose. Any dog that is under 40kg I can handle. Over that and it may well kill me.

The main issue, and people may struggle with this, is that the dog is there to warn, or take a bullet for me an the family. A gun makes noise, an better you hear it outside than inside the house next to you.


___________________________
Luis
@ghostsword

 

[Ghostsword]

yeah makes sense, i did a little test today i used to do with my boxer, i let her out in the garden and was pretending to smack my 3yr daughter....she came running at me jumping through midair and biting my arm lol....[\QUOTE]


One word of advice, this is not good. Your dog should not bite you ever, never ever ever. Not a good idea dude.


Want to test your dog? Get a friend from work, muzzle the dog and get the guy to attack you, you will quickly see what the dog's reactions are.


___________________________
Luis
@ghostsword

 

[natsan6]

I have thought a great deal along these lines. I have often wondered if Jagger will be the "protective" type or not. Everyone says he will grow into it, but honestly he seems so sweet and eager to meet people I am not sure. Please don't misunderstand I LOVE my dog and did not get him just for protection it is just a bonus that he is big and intimidating not a deal breaker. I would like more information on the testing thing...how, when and where kind of info, lol! I have no idea what this involves. Do the dogs not "sense" that it is a test.... what I mean by that is like in Thor's situation isn't it possible that he wasn't truly worried about his owner? could he not sense that the guy meant him no real harm? maybe that is the reason for the laid back reaction? This truly is ignorance talking here. I have no clue it is just, without more in depth knowledge, the conclusion I would come to. We have never really been anywhere near someone that I found unfriendly with Jagger so I have often wondered if it is in there somewhere (the protection instinct) or if he is gonna be just my big sweet baby? He is 6 months by the way so I know he is still just a baby...just thinking about the future

 

[Tiger12490]

I have thought a great deal along these lines. I have often wondered if Jagger will be the "protective" type or not. Everyone says he will grow into it, but honestly he seems so sweet and eager to meet people I am not sure. Please don't misunderstand I LOVE my dog and did not get him just for protection it is just a bonus that he is big and intimidating not a deal breaker. I would like more information on the testing thing...how, when and where kind of info, lol! I have no idea what this involves. Do the dogs not "sense" that it is a test.... what I mean by that is like in Thor's situation isn't it possible that he wasn't truly worried about his owner? could he not sense that the guy meant him no real harm? maybe that is the reason for the laid back reaction? This truly is ignorance talking here. I have no clue it is just, without more in depth knowledge, the conclusion I would come to. We have never really been anywhere near someone that I found unfriendly with Jagger so I have often wondered if it is in there somewhere (the protection instinct) or if he is gonna be just my big sweet baby? He is 6 months by the way so I know he is still just a baby...just thinking about the future

A good place to get tested is your local schutzund club they won't ruin your dog and they know what to do ...and dogs don't reason so all they see is someone threatening and they act or don't that's why your able to train them in PP if they always knew it was fake you would never be able to train them in defense

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

I have thought a great deal along these lines. I have often wondered if Jagger will be the "protective" type or not. Everyone says he will grow into it, but honestly he seems so sweet and eager to meet people I am not sure. Please don't misunderstand I LOVE my dog and did not get him just for protection it is just a bonus that he is big and intimidating not a deal breaker. I would like more information on the testing thing...how, when and where kind of info, lol! I have no idea what this involves. Do the dogs not "sense" that it is a test.... what I mean by that is like in Thor's situation isn't it possible that he wasn't truly worried about his owner? could he not sense that the guy meant him no real harm? maybe that is the reason for the laid back reaction? This truly is ignorance talking here. I have no clue it is just, without more in depth knowledge, the conclusion I would come to. We have never really been anywhere near someone that I found unfriendly with Jagger so I have often wondered if it is in there somewhere (the protection instinct) or if he is gonna be just my big sweet baby? He is 6 months by the way so I know he is still just a baby...just thinking about the future

That could be true....when the came him and stopped Thor sniffed him checking him out. It was only when the guy attempted to touch Thor on his side did he walk away. Though he kept an eye on "bad guy."

A local schutzhund or PSA club ( which is what I did) can test your dog. Let us know how it goes.

 

[BradA1878]

Even with a local schutzhund or PSA club I'd still be VERY CAREFUL about who tests my Mastiff for protection.

Sport clubs are used to working sporting dogs, not mastiffs. The Mastiff temperament and guarding instinct is VERY different from the typical herding dogs used in PP sports. A good PP Sports decoy is not necessarily a good PPD decoy - and let's be honest here, there are a LOT of shitty trainers and shitty decoys out there. All one has to do is look on YouTube to see how many horrible decoys there are.

A good decoy knows just how much pressure to put on your dog (by reading the subtleties of their reaction) and will not damage your dog in a test, but a not-so-good decoy could easily put too much of the wrong kind of pressure on your Mastiff and ruin him/her in a test. Be VERY selective about who you trust to test your mastiff.

Here is a post I made awhile back with a link to an article (and book) on the differences between the behavior confirmation of guarding in Mastiff-type breeds vs herding breeds: http://www.mastiff-forum.com/showthread.php/2144-Couple-quick-questions.....?p=9779&viewfull=1#post9779

Also, for anyone who is looking to get a puppy that will eventually be a PPD, it's my personal opinion that you hold off on most of the advanced OB training until the dog is a year old and can be tested. If you put too much restraint and rules on your dog at too young of an age you can crush the dog's natural protective drive before you ever get a chance to test him/her. Basic commands like recall and such are fine, but don't be too heavy handed with the OB and rules or you will regret it later. Let them have their puppy-hood.

 

[chuckorlando]

Even with a local schutzhund or PSA club I'd still be VERY CAREFUL about who tests my Mastiff for protection.

Sport clubs are used to working sporting dogs, not mastiffs. The Mastiff temperament and guarding instinct is VERY different from the typical herding dogs used in PP sports. A good PP Sports decoy is not necessarily a good PPD decoy - and let's be honest here, there are a LOT of shitty trainers and shitty decoys out there. All one has to do is look on YouTube to see how many horrible decoys there are.

A good decoy knows just how much pressure to put on your dog (by reading the subtleties of their reaction) and will not damage your dog in a test, but a not-so-good decoy could easily put too much of the wrong kind of pressure on your Mastiff and ruin him/her in a test. Be VERY selective about who you trust to test your mastiff.

Here is a post I made awhile back with a link to an article (and book) on the differences between the behavior confirmation of guarding in Mastiff-type breeds vs herding breeds: Also, for anyone who is looking to get a puppy that will eventually be a PPD, it's my personal opinion that you hold off on most of the advanced OB training until the dog is a year old and can be tested. If you put too much restraint and rules on your dog at too young of an age you can crush the dog's natural protective drive before you ever get a chance to test him/her. Basic commands like recall and such are fine, but don't be too heavy handed with the OB and rules or you will regret it later. Let them have their puppy-hood.

That sounds alot like the cafib train of thought on testing. You deff dont want your dog broken. I tried looking into a trainer and just could'nt come up with anyone with Fila experiance. Many said they trained plenty of large dogs... Well that aint the same. I'd rather her use her natrual instinct than get broken. At this point, I aint sure anyone could get close enough to handle her

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

A lot of very good posts here. We have talkers in our house as we call them and we run them with the non-talkers. We have them tested after a year and see how they react. Not because I worry about them protecting me because we are hunters here in our house for a reason The dogs are mainly there to slow you down or draw your attention, because lets face it if you are coming in amid all the noise that my dogs can make when they hear something off then you aren't worried about what dogs are inside.

At all times we have a barker out with a silent stalker that way we have some advance notice if something is up.

I do have a question for the ones who know their dogs will engage, do you find the dog more protective of one member of the family or perhaps the kids more?

 

[Cody]

I honestly can't say whether or not my dogs would engage. As said before the severity of their show at the window beside the door, Raw throws herself at it is more then enough for me. She has put herself between me and ppl she decides she doesn't like and lets out a low grumble before... However I believe she will protect our son. My husband had an old friend over one night. Hadn't seen the guy in 15 years, popped up in town so Ron invited him for dinner. Guy that he was showed up drunk. He had been there for over an hour, he was on one couch, Mass (my son) and I on another and Raw was "sleeping" on her bed in the corner. Guy picked up a toy gun that was on the couch and pointed it at Mass acting all serious and weird. There was a roar from the corner and in a nano second Raw was in front of him baring teeth and growling.I downed her, told him to slowly put the toy down and suggested he NOT do that sort of thing again.Raw was on him the rest of the night.Now he applied no pressure back, so not sure what she would have done, thankfully no one got bit and buddy will not be coming over again...

 

[Tiger12490]

I also dont know for fact if Athena would protect but if it would be anyone it would be my wife she goes everywhere with her including work

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[Tiger12490]

Look what I found [video=youtube;pLbyw2aX1CI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLbyw2aX1CI&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Tiger awesome find!

 

[aceoutdoor]

Look what I found [video=youtube;pLbyw2aX1CI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLbyw2aX1CI&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

Tapd on my skyrocket

If he would have tried that with a proper Fila even on its first test, he would probably have got bitten in the face.

 

[Tiger12490]

Well its a lot easier to flush some defense out of a fila all u have to do is enter a 5m perimeter with an EM I'm surprised he actually got defense out of it and it was extremely balanced and this was the dogs FIRST bite I'm very impressed

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[aceoutdoor]

I agree. For his breed the dog did great. I was referring to the trainers laxidasical approach to the dog in regards to his own safety.

 

[Ghostsword]

Great reaction from the dog.. I am sure that his pants were brown.. He was lucky that she just done a show, but off the leash it could have gone all the way. What a moron..


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Luis
@ghostsword

 

[aceoutdoor]

Yeah he was very vulnerable. Not too smart.

 

[BradA1878]

Well that aint the same. I'd rather her use her natrual instinct than get broken. At this point, I aint sure anyone could get close enough to handle her

I totally agree.

I do have a question for the ones who know their dogs will engage, do you find the dog more protective of one member of the family or perhaps the kids more?

With Luytiy (Caucasian Ovcharka), Blue (Cane Corso), and Parka (Boerboel) there is a very clear difference in how they act around Jen, Jen and Chase, Chase, or me.

Parka and Luytiy are VERY protective of Chase and Jen, and mildly protective of me.

Blue almost never guards around me, but is very "guardy" when Chase and/or Jen is present.

They all guard the car when Jen and Chase are in it without me, but doesn't guard when I am in there (unless we leave him alone, then they guards).

When someone comes to our door and I walk outside with Luytiy in the yard, his level of guarding doesn't change. But when Jen walks out Luytiy takes it to the next level. It's a very noticeable difference.

If he would have tried that with a proper Fila even on its first test, he would probably have got bitten in the face.

The Mastiff in the video looks VERY confused to me, and is in avoidance a few times IMHO.

 

[aceoutdoor]

With Luytiy (Caucasian Ovcharka), Blue (Cane Corso), and Parka (Boerboel) there is a very clear difference in how they act around Jen, Jen and Chase, Chase, or me.

Parka and Luytiy are VERY protective of Chase and Jen, and mildly protective of me.

Blue almost never guards around me, but is very "guardy" when Chase and/or Jen is present.

They all guard the car when Jen and Chase are in it without me, but doesn't guard when I am in there (unless we leave him alone, then they guards).

When someone comes to our door and I walk outside with Luytiy in the yard, his level of guarding doesn't change. But when Jen walks out Luytiy takes it to the next level. It's a very noticeable difference.

Interesting group of breeds you own. Ovcharkas are the most overlooked guardian breed in my opinion.

[video=youtube;gjXIoCIAVQI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjXIoCIAVQI&feature=endscreen[/video]