Fila Brasileiro

[dogman#1]

Cuckorlando, Not exactly.. the argument of the "black bloodhound" is not exactly true. That argument is used by non CAFIB breeders to convince (or trick, whichever way you look at it) people that have done some reasearch into the breed but have not dug deep enough yet. See the "black bloodhound" is called the st hubert's hound and it was extremely rare even when it was around. Whoever told you that bloodhounds only came in black or white back then was either misinformed or deliberatly misinformed you on purpose unless they are thinking that the monks of belgium sent in the black variants directly into Brazil in the 1200s..... Now lets just say that is the case...why is it that CAFIB kennels cannot produce a single black dog? we all know that the black color is very dominant and you do NOT need a black dog to produce black dogs. Paulo Santos Cruz is the Father of the Fila Brasileiro. He was hired to write the standard of the Fila Brasileiro before he knew anything of the breed. He was sent to a kennel in Rio to view some dogs and write a standard based on that.....he later viewed more kennels and realized that there was no consistency among them. When he went to MG he saw the consistency he was after. he petitioned to get the standard changed but the big $ kennels fought it. He wrote the CAFIB standard in the 70s and that is where it stood. The CAFIB standard has not changed but the other standard has. infact I dont know if it went through its final change yet but it will change to include that if the dog is too agressive it will be disqualified! and then welcome to the AKC where the breed could finish being completly destroyed. The CBKC people will also tell you that theirs is the only recognized standard when that cant be further from the truth. the truth is that the CAFIB standard is and has been approved bu the ministry of agriculture in Brazil while the CBKC had been dropped several time because of faulty record holding in regards to the Fila Brasileiro. Non CAFIB breeders have been trained to say exactly what the customer needs to hear but all the buyer needs to do is some research and find out the truth on their own.

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------

OdeMx, Thanks. I am constantly reading and educating myself so i could be able to better understand this breed and to better defend it from extinction.

 

[dogman#1]

OdeMx, Thanks. I am constantly reading and educating myself so i could be able to better understand this breed and to better defend it from extinction.

---------- Post added at 06:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------

OdeMx, Thanks. I am constantly reading and educating myself so i could be able to better understand this breed and to better defend it from extinction.

 

[dogman#1]

OdeMx, Thanks. I am constantly reading and educating myself so i could be able to better understand this breed and to better defend it from extinction.

 

[Kelly]

Wow this is so interesting for a breed I will never own! But I sure would respect one if I ever saw one, we dont have too many around here. Thanks for the info on the color thing it does make sense.

Deutch Doggen, looking forward to hearing all about Thors' testing tomorow!

 

[dogman#1]

All seirra123, I had written a huge thing but apparently it didnt stick, lol. The black color argument is as old as the day is long... Filas were not bred for the sole purpose of guarding a home, their main purpose was driving cattle through harsh terrain, up and down mountains in the heat and blazing sun of Brazil....a black colored dog is not an option as it absorbs heat like it was going out of style. It is a common argument for the non CAFIB breeders to say that the farmers had huge black filas to guard their homes as thieves and trespassers could not see them at night...have you seen the videos? these arent tricky lil nija dogs... they run straight at you barking like crazy...who cares what color they are as the bad guy know exactly where they are from their banshee screams, lol. BTW the brindle color actually hides better in the dark. The only valid point about the argument is that black dogs seem to scare some people more than others (studies have shown).

 

[allsierra123]

No I get what your saying dogman. And you are right they make so much noise. That most people on the block know where there at. As far as the black dog in the heat yeah they get warmer quicker. LOL but like I said before I respect both sides of the arguement if I were looking to breed I would probably be much more worried about what I got. Mine didnt cost me anything She was from an accidental breeding most of the littermates were culled. She would have been to if hadnt said I wanted her. I think out of 16 only 4 of them werent culled and they went to close friends and for the sole purpose of family pets and campanions. We just wanted the largets one from the little and I wanted the most calm one in the litter thinking a more serious pup would be easier to train and would be a better family dog. But not realizing yes she is very calm and very serious. But she has mass amount of ojeriza the rest of the 4 were very english mastiff like and happy go lucky pups. Delilah was very subdued stand offish and a loof from the get go. We honestly didnt get into the breed knowing what the FILA was all about. I had heard of them but didnt have much info on them. My friends mastiff impregnated his daughters fila by mistake. I to this day have never seen the mother close enough to know anything about her. Other than she would eat me alive if she could. So I guess im not very up to date on all the fila info and especially not the history. The extinct of my prior knowledge comes from a book by carl semancic I think that how his name was spelled he had a blurb in his molloser book about them.

 

[dogman#1]

Guys, I hope noone takes offense when I talk about the breeds history. I follow the CAFIB standard for obvious reasons. Some times the conversation leads to mixbreeding and while I will stop short on calling someone's dog mixbred (unless provoked to) the information will ultimatly lead to that...the issue is this, some people do little to no research on a breed, they buy from a person that they believe is trustworthy, they pay an ungodly amount of money, they love their dog and their dog loves them, they become blind to the dog in front of them and cannot see the faults. they will only see what they want to see, no matter how different their dog is from the standard they will wedge it in there like a square peg into a round hole...no matter what that dog is a fila. Now they are doing some research and they find that maybe they were wrong, maybe their dog is not what they thought it was....nah, its a perfect example of the breed and must be bred.

---------- Post added at 07:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 PM ----------

Kelly, no prob
ALLseirra, this isnt a common breed almost noone that I know has even heard of it.
DD, If the guy is good make sure to keep him on dial. goodluck bro. and let us know how it goes.

 

[dogman#1]

Kelly, no prob
ALLseirra, this isnt a common breed almost noone that I know has even heard of it.
DD, If the guy is good make sure to keep him on dial. goodluck bro. and let us know how it goes.

 

[chuckorlando]

Dogman I was'nt stating anything about the hound as fact. Just explaining a little bit about what each sides position is. As we both know most folks know very little about the breed period. Black hounds, white hounds, I dont have a dog in ya'lls fight. Know one has told me or mis lead me. I do my own research when I can and as much of it as I can. But were o the topic of the color so I thought I might try to explain a bit of what the argument is for both sides.

As I have said, I dont much care about any of it for more than an education stand point. I'm certainly no authority on the subject of breeding. I know my pup came from 2 brendal fila's. What they had in them prior to that, or what gene created the black that she is, well I dont care. Though I absolutly wont discount that they were mixed somewhere. Could very well be. Wont offend me if she is. Cause she's awsome. Black and all. HAHAHAHA.

 

[Dogue]

Chuckorlando, they didn't introduce the Neo to get a softer temp in the Fila. Neos have high DD and and make excellent guard dogs (As long as they're primarily in your house, lol.). Unfortunately, Neo breeders have ruined the breed with their excessive wrinkles which translates into a clumsy dog and a vet's dream. I speak from experience. Neos have a higher DD than a Dane, English Mastiff, DDB, etc. I've had two and I'm very impressed with their temperament. They are incredibly protective and will bite. However, I could bring over a friend and say "it's okay" to my Neo and he would then just be aloof but would not go after him. I would attribute the overall softer temp of the CBKC Fila to the EM and GD. The rationale for the Neo probably was due to their color (black) and breeders wanting more wrinkles.

As far as politics, Yes and No. But if you do your own research this is what you'll find. You will see that there's a huge difference between a CBKC Fila (Brazillian Mastiff) and a CAFIB Fila. The variation alone is insane. You have CBKC Filas that look like EM's, Neos and others that look like Basset Hounds. And they're winning at the shows. As far as temperament, you will see CBKC judges physically examining CBKC Filas which shouldn't be tolerated by a Fila. These are strangers mind you. Is this proper temperament for a Fila? Also, look at pictures from the past and you will not see overgrown slobbering Filas that look like Neos or EM's. You start seeing those Filas in the 60's and 70's. Correct me if I'm wrong dogman?

Hopefully no one has taken offense here. This is a great thread!

---------- Post added at 08:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 PM ----------

ChuckOrlando, I have a friend that took care of a black Brazillian Mastiff for six months and he was an awesome dog from what she shared.

 

[Dogue]

ChuckOrlando, I have a friend that took care of a black Brazillian Mastiff for six months and he was an awesome dog from what she shared.

 

[chuckorlando]

I take no offence and really would agree with everything you said. Maybe I was wrong about the neo as far as temp. Neo breeders are another story all together.

As far as politics, well again thats not a fact, just me explaining what the cbkc say as far as their argument goes. As far as the whole mess, it's all politics. If it was'nt the mess would be put to rest for good.

As far as breed standard for cbkc goes, I agree with all you said. But I dont rightly care. If someone finds a cbkc or any thing else that fits what they want, cool. If they paid more than some one thinks is proper, well it's their check book. If a person fails to look into the 2 standards then they either dont care one way or the other, or should have done their homework. These are'nt things you should be learning after the fact if they matter to you. Most on here I dont think care out side of the education.

 

[dogman#1]

Some Neos have softer tempermanents and some have even harder temps as a whole they are completly watered down versions of their glorious past...too bad they used be such awesome dogs. Dogue is very correct in much of what was written. the reason for their mixing of other breeds is known only to the mixers. A really good example of a "Fila" that has obvious mixed bred Neo traits is "Bubba do Eshabeta" , just google him...he is the poster child of obvious mixed breedings with Filas. He also happens to be in many of the pedigrees of the non CAFIB filas in the U.S but the breeders do not disclose this fact and instead either ommit this fact or just paper hang, or my favorite "he was the strongest, biggest and most powerful Fila of all time and the CAFIB folks are just jealous that he wasnt from their bloodlines" LMFAO...love that one. Remember mix breeding anything with a fila doesnt mean that it will come out w/o temperament, infact I have seen some pretty insane mixes with awesome temperament but Filas they are not. Like I said before ojeriza is just one of many characteristics that a fila must possess...a dog with ojeriza does not make a fila but a fila must have ojeriza. To get more info on common mixed breedings and some of the most common characteristics of such all one has to do is read the CAFIB standard towards the bottom: "mixed traits disqualifications". one must remember that it can have multiple different breeds in one dog so dont be confused if you see things from different breeds in one dog. The standard only lists the common ones ie, Neo, EMs and GDs. There are other ones like Dogue stated ...basset hounds, pointers, and even bloodhounds. what is most common nowadays is to influx more CAFIB blood to bring back the "fila look" and temperament to a bloodline that has completly lost it due to mixed breedings. This is easy to see as many non CAFIB kennels have started to buy and and reintroduce CAFIB blood back into their stock because they couldnt even trick anyone anymore. Those breeding, F1s and F2s will look more like CAFIB Filas but they start losing the look and other characteristics after that and so more CAFIB blood must be introduced again...They should just call a spade a spade like the Akita breeders did and just start calling them different names as it is adifferent breed (if you can even call it that as it has no consistency)

 

[Cody]

I personally find this very interesting. As some one who doesn't know much about this breed, this thread is a great read. Loving what I am learning here! Although I have to admit it sounds somewhat similar to arguments in other breeds.

 

[allsierra123]

yes definitely good stuff. I had no Idea this breed had such a colorful past.

 

[Kelly]

I personally find this very interesting. As some one who doesn't know much about this breed, this thread is a great read. Loving what I am learning here! Although I have to admit it sounds somewhat similar to arguments in other breeds.

I know, right! Like this "ojeriza" word, never heard of it, sounds sexy, have to look it up!

 

[Dogue]

It's my dream to own a CAFIB Fila. Besides their characteristics which I find perfect in every way. It's their past and future that makes me so passionate about this breed. Which is kinda funny for someone that doesn't even own a Fila. In the meantime, I'll live vicariously through Dogman and other Fila owners. Dogman, thanks for sharing the videos and always taking the time to answer our questions and share your knowledge about this fascinating breed.

 

[dogman#1]

Unfortunatly alot of other breeds ultimatly lost the fight and with so few left with original type and temperament that they could never be brought back to their original glory. Take the presa, the original english bulldog, the original English mastiff, Great danes, etc. what we have is either recreations of a once great breed or a complete revision of it.. the similarities with those once great breed are now, unfortunately only skin deep. The Fila still has a chance as Europe as a whole has embraced CAFIB as has Asia, CAFIB gains more ground everyday in Brazil and ofcourse the USA, the last real stronghold for the non CAFIB dog....once Americans stop buying them the market for non CAFIB dogs will crumble and their breeders will start to shift over (as many are starting to do already). Already several kennels have come out and told the truth about their kennel's past, they show exactly where the mixed breeding took place and still people dont pay attention...in the end I believe that it may be a losing cause as we are just enamoured with the "bigger must be better" attitude and the "there just isnt a place for an animal like that in today's society" way of thinking...I'd rather it disapear completly that for it to go the route of the neo and the english mastiff...once great warrior dogs reduced to slobbering messes that couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bag without losing their breath. Im not insulting the owners of these dogs im just stating the sad reality that these dogs are just a shadow of their past. If you want a big dog w/o temp please dont ask for a fila as you are only encouragin the mixed breeders to continue making their monsters..just go with something else and leave this breed to the people who love it in its original state...please, it is the last of the warrior mastiffs, let it remain for at least a little longer.

---------- Post added at 02:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 AM ----------

no problem guys, as long as there is interest and questions i am glad to answer any and all questions.

 

[dogman#1]

no problem guys, as long as there is interest and questions i am glad to answer any and all questions.

 

[chuckorlando]

Dogman it certainly aint a lost cause. Just in the coarse of this thread you've spread some sweet sweet knowledge. And likely changed some views and if nothing, someone here will have a micro version of this conversation ele where. Truth is this is the kind of place you need to be spreeding it. This same conversation on a fila forum would have resulted in a fight where both sides look like jerks. I know this because my opinion of both sides has been there jerks because of the reeding I've done on them forums. Nothing will ever be accomplished acting like kids and thats the impression I've had.

Dogman and Dogue, you have'nt come off that way. You've showed alot of respect and that makes people respect you and what your fighting for. Thats how all these conversations should be handled. When one side or the other(usually both) start slinging mud, the outsiders like myself just back up. But when you simply conversate and spread the word, people remember that Dogman.

I would assume anyone viewing this thread will at the very least, look into cafibs much harder if they are looking for a fila.

Now back to the spreeding of the knowledge. Is it the ckbc that wishes to become akc? I've also read the ckbc is seriously considering a shift to a standard much more in line with cafib. Have you heard this? If so what would you think the long term affect would be to the two groups and fila as a whole? Meaning is there a chance the two will merge at some point? Or do you feel it will get worse before better?