Fila Brasileiro

Discussion in 'General Mastiff Discussion' started by dogman#1, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. dogman#1

    dogman#1 Active Member

    good job... hope that you dont plan to have that guy around her any more... glad you stopped relatively early with the weight stuff...very, very bad for puppies of large breeds. got a quick question for ya..in some pics your dog appears to have round eyes and in others not..which one is it? you got a reg. pic where she is just standing and facing forward? thanks.
     
  2. chuckorlando

    chuckorlando New Member

    Sure I do. It was completly un intentional. He just looked down and there was a golf club. He picked it up and she went at him a little. Not much but a little. But when he swung it, she was not acting the way he thought she would. She went at him. I understand most aggressive actions from pups are fear driven but she did not seem the least bit afraid
     
  3. chuckorlando

    chuckorlando New Member

    She pulled the power wheel till you could see it was getting to be like work. On the flat it rolls more or less. I had just read how some dogs act funny when you weight them. So I wanted to see. It was like second nature to her. But she wont get any more weight pulling for now. But I may rig up a wagon for her to pull for me. Make moving plants around a job alot easier. hahahaha
     
  4. Tiger12490

    Tiger12490 New Member

    She's beautiful Chuck I've noticed lately fear has been off the table lately for Athena too no raised hackles ears up slow wag like she's daring them maybe there temps are cementing

    Tapd on my Skyrocket
     
  5. Dogue

    Dogue New Member

    Tiger I was being funny but serious too, lol. I've never agitated but am fascinated by it. I plan on buying a suit this fall. And will be studying the agitators at the CAFIB show. Once I get the suit it's gangbusters. I would love to go down to SD and act like a madman this fall for you. As far Luis, I'd probably get kicked off his property for asking too many questions.
     
  6. Tiger12490

    Tiger12490 New Member

    Lol yea i'm always up to prove my dogs not to others but to myself haha but by fall we'll be in PA were we will still be looking for a good agitator and club there btw if anyone is in the Philly area...me and the wife are looking for a CAFIB show in SO CAL now though

    Tapd on my Skyrocket
     
  7. chuckorlando

    chuckorlando New Member

    Thanks Tiger. She may not be what some folks would want but she's good with me. She is very very solid. It takes some force to move her when she's just standing let alone gong against the grain. If you notice the 2 leashes on her.... Thats cause she has ripped half way through her original one. I did'nt notice in time to get another so I doubled it up. Thank god I did cause I believe that would have been Freds arse had I not.
     
  8. Ghostsword

    Ghostsword New Member

    I trained military dogs, for a long time. :)

    I specialized in attack dogs, they are controllable, that they need to, but I can seriously tell you that when the leash is off, and they are in full tilt they will trash whoever is in front. Some dogs in the excitement will even nip the handler, if teased for too long. Not nice but it happens.

    We got our GSD's bought from Germany and Poland, they would be 18 to 24 months, and they would have passed a test very similar to what Cafib has.

    The dogs are not expected to go in public, not walk down a street and will stay with one single handler for a minimum of three years.

    I still believe that Filas would fit that bill perfectly, we cherish dogs that are one with the handler, but controllable.

    Yes, what the Guy on the video did could have been better, but the Fila performed as I would have expected a dog to perform. It saw the camera guy an went for it? Great! It is for the handler to control the dog and be aware of what is going on, the dog just sees a situation of threat and it needs to protect the handler.

    What needs to be understood is that there is a big difference between the PP work you see on a civilian dog, a police dog and a military dog. They are not the same thing. At least not for me.

    Many of our colleagues after the force they go and join the police, also on the k9 units and they seriously have to tone down what the dog is allowed to do, and the sort of dogs they have are of a different temperament.

    Not sure how it goes in the US, but in Portugal that is how it is.


    ___________________________
    Luis
    @ghostsword
     
  9. Tiger12490

    Tiger12490 New Member

    Interesting good insight yea I guess the caliber would have to be different

    Tapd on my Skyrocket
     
  10. chuckorlando

    chuckorlando New Member

    I know if I ws over in a desert kicking in doors, I would love to know my dogs jaws are snapping at any thing inside that bite zone. But I would think that diffrent needs inside the police or military would yield diffrent dogs. I dont know if special forces of any kind use dogs but if they do they would likely be trained to be way diffrent than a combat dog. I would also expect Isreal to train dogs way diffrent than the US. I would expect a drug dog for a major air port would be diffrnt than a drug dog that works in the desert in Az.

    Of coarse I have no clue at all. But I would reason they would be. An Airport dog would need to be very mild manored and almost invisable in it's job. Where on the boarder I would expect the dogs to be ready to get it soon as the handler lets go. In the airport the dog would likely scratch or bark, get a treat and chill while the cop does his job, be it held or free.
     
  11. dogman#1

    dogman#1 Active Member

    Chuck, narc dogs at the airport or at the border were known as non passive dogs. in the airport they do not see people as they run the carousel before it gets to the people up top...when they hit on a bag they attempt to tear it to shreds...same as the dogs at the border...they would tear a car to shreds. As of late they have been using passive dogs which would just sit or just stare at the area and freeze... they get trained that as soon as they find the location of a scent they let the "gopher" out (A ball that pops out of the scent area) so when they find the spot they are waiting for the gopher to pop out...it is a game for them and the ball is the reward....

    BTW I dont think that your dogs are acting out of fear...that is usually said by people that dont know anything about filas and how they could have such a heightened defense drive at a young age... My 6 month old went through my kitchen window (she was on the deck) trying to get at my friend who gave my wife a kiss and hug hello... her first "live bite" was when she was 4.5 mths old...scared dogs dont jump through windows or run across rooms to get people.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2012
  12. chuckorlando

    chuckorlando New Member

    Thats interesting info. I dont know much about any of them dogs. I just seen them on tv walking all calm and just hanging out. But then a diffrent show they are wide open go getters. I've been searching for a video I seen. It was I believe a Brazilian military officer. Had the most well trained Fila I ever seen. The dog marched roght along with him. When he stoped the dog went from his right side around the front and back to his riht side and sat. As they marched someone fired a gun a few times and the dog did'nt even look. I cant seem to find it any where now.
     
  13. Ghostsword

    Ghostsword New Member

    Yeah, chuck, on a combat area once you send your dog in there is a big chance that all on that room that is not staying still and on the floor will get shredded.

    Very rarely you do that, as if two people on the room one would get bitten and the other would shoot the dog. But we also train the dog to flank people, wait at spots and to detect people on the other side of the room.

    A fila would only present issues when traveling at the back of a truck with a team, or in close proximity with other team members, it would need to allow people into its zone. Not be touched or petted, but people would need to come into about a meter or so. Again that rarely happens, and to be fair some of our GSD's would not allow that also. :)

    Now about fear. If a dog is already lunging at someone 5 meters away then you may have some fear issues, barking and growling is ok, but not lunging. At 3 meters or reaching distance is not fear. The more a confident a dog is the less personal space it needs. Usually is 2 meters, the distance it can covers with one jump.

    About age. I would not introduce a sleeve to a dog that is under 12 months, and even then would depend on the stability of the dog and its development, but would encourage protection behavior from the age that the dog show it. So a 5 month old pup is barkin at strangers I would say good boy and encourage him to stay at my side, not lunging but support the bark, and tell the person to move back, showing o the dog that he did good and that it is allowed to bark and warn.

    Obedience and control is the key, that must never be taken for granted, and work with as often as possible. Be gentle, consistent and reward the dog when something is done good, correct when something is not done the way you want, and never never smack the dog or be too rough. Harsh techniques may seem to work but you will end up with a scared dog and are not productive. Firm yes, harsh never.

    I am really looking forward to working with Filas. :)


    ___________________________
    Luis
    @ghostsword
     
  14. Tiger12490

    Tiger12490 New Member

    Those are some rough dogs ghost....would there be some videos you could show us or point us in the direction of I'd love to see them. our military working dogs are not close to that you could go up to them and pet them and such there very much like a PP or police dog but they also do many task like bomb and narco sniffing I've been bitten by one for fun and then sat down and shared a canteen

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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
  15. Ghostsword

    Ghostsword New Member

    Hi Tiger. Our units are called ttcm and PA. Ttcm stands for Trainers and Handlers of Military Dogs and PA stands for Air Force Military Police.

    There is a great video on youtube that would outline a day on a k9 unit school where all new members would spend 12 weeks with a dog, it is a long video, maybe 20 minutes, but would show what we do.

    Put it this way, no dog is ever put down for being aggressive and although we are 12 per Air Force Base, I would not expect any of my colleagues to handle my dog. If I was on holidays they would just clean the kennel and feed the dog, and once a day take the dog out for a walk, but I had dogs that I had to stay at the base to take them out. In 5 years I took maybe 20 days off. :) it is a life commitment. Not all dogs are like that but each base has two or three cases that are notorious. Funny enough even 20 years past and we still remember those dogs by name and we share their pictures.

    For example we had a dog that to take him out of the kennel there was a procedure. Tell him to sit, put a muzzle and then put the colar. You put the colar without a muzzle and you get bitten. To put him back on the kennel you had to get him in, tell to sit, and take the colar. Loose the muzzle and he will take it out. Later you could go in to pick up the muzzle. It was an extreme case, but try any other way and you would get bitten. One guy tried and end up almost 8 months in hospital, was medical discharged after, as some of its tendons where damaged on the hands.

    On the other hand one handler a couple of months after was ok with the dog, so it also depends on the handler. He was taking the dog out without a muzzle without any issues. The dog name was Kaiser.

    We have a couple of groups on facebook but they are closed groups, but will look for the videos on youtube.


    ___________________________
    Luis
    @ghostsword
     
  16. Tiger12490

    Tiger12490 New Member

    That's awesome its cool to talk to a person who trained military working dogs checking the video out that sounds like a heck of a dog but I bet he got the job done and there is nothing wrong with that..

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  17. Ghostsword

    Ghostsword New Member

    The video that show a day on the K9 Unit school is below.

    These are young dogs and handlers, about half way the 12 weeks course.

    Check out this video on YouTube:

    [video=youtube;od27kCBQJOo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od27kCBQJOo[/video]


    ___________________________
    Luis
    @ghostsword
     
  18. Ghostsword

    Ghostsword New Member

    [video=youtube;od27kCBQJOo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od27kCBQJOo&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]


    ___________________________
    Luis
    @ghostsword
     
  19. Ghostsword

    Ghostsword New Member

    Using tapatalk from the iphone, hope that the videos get through.


    ___________________________
    Luis
    @ghostsword
     
  20. Tiger12490

    Tiger12490 New Member

    It does and what a great video and they are only in training jeez those are some fine dogs and handlers and very brave decoys I love how they obviously learned to present the target very very well lol I guess they enjoy using there other arm

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