ddb introduction issues help needed

[Ned666]

I have a DDB, he is almost 2.5 years old. Never been known to be aggresive. Lately when someone approaches him he is doing a launching. He brused a new friend.
I'm assuming it was that way since he is protective of me, and their hands were in their pockets, so he goes for the belly. I even took him to bars w/ a lot of people w/ my other dog. He showed this behaviour twice in the last day, once someone coming into the house, other when a group of youngsters(adults) wanted to meet him.How do I get him over this w/o tearing up someone.
I'm planning to invite more people to the house, I walk him daily, gets a lot of off leash time at the beach. He plays well w/ my friends kids and at the beach. This behaviour must stop. I work from home during the day so I have the time to train him.
Any advice is appreciated.

Ned

 

[Mongo]

Can you explain "launching" a little better? Is he growling? Barking?

 

[Ned666]

first barking, not growling, I open the front door(clear door to atrium), he was on my right, my friend entered from left.
He went around me and jumped towards him face first frined jumped back, near miss. I'm in a new home, it has been a month. This friend had his hands in his pocket. the day before another friend came by I corrected him, but he though he can take my friends pants.
I think he is focused on the hidden hands.
I called a class, we will see how he will do tomorrow in a class.

I've had parties and other events at my other place many times, maybe the city is too much for him
for now. Used to live on a 1.5 acres w/ 10K sq ft fenced yard.
I can understand somewhat at home why he might do it, not used to many visitors to this house yet.
But outside of the house on a walk? No good.

 

[Dogue]

I don't think he was wanting to attack your buddy . . . just wanted to play or establish dominance. You will know when your dogue is going to truly attack; it will be just (intruder, etc.) However, you don't want your dogue jumping; it's bad doggie manners and people will think you can't control your dog, which is embarrassing. Miel (DDB) did this when she was a puppy but I put an end to it. Establish a routine everytime someone comes over. When friends knock on the door and he runs to the door tell him to sit next to the door and have hime wait until he's calm. Then invite your frind in, however, do not let him leave the sitting position and then camly introduce your friend to your dogue. Also, whenever you walk your dogue make sure he sits before you open the door.

 

[BradA1878]

If a 2 year-old DDB wanted to hurt (bite) someone he/she would do it and there would be little the owner could do to stop it. So, I dunno that I would call what you are describing "aggressive". I might call it "confused" tho.

Moving to a new home, with such a dramatic change in environment would mos def cause your DDB to be stressed, and that stress might increase his defensive instincts. That's a huge change for a Mastiff, some of the Mastiffs we've owned in the past got stressed if we moved their crate to a different area of the room - I can't imagine what an environmental change like you describe would do to one of them!

Also, personally, I wouldn't correct your dog for protective behavior. I would redirect and praise them. When you correct him for acting on instincts you will only confusing him. Then, later if you want him to protect you, he will not have the confidence to do so as he will be concerned that you will get mad at him for it. This is a very common mistake with owners of guardians, it feels unnatural to praise a dog for doing something you are not that pleased with, but it will help him build confidence. When he does something like this, by calling him to you (redirecting him) and then praising him, you are actually reinforcing his recall under those conditions (where he is guarding you).

 

[Dogue]

Well said!

 

[Ned666]

Thanks guys, he must be confused for sure he lifted up a male 4 month old pit puppy(on leash) a few days ago.
He does very well small corrections in class as well. The last thing I worry about him is being my protector, he is too important to me.
He listens well, I guess he won't be off leash at the beach anymore. It is a bad situation

 

[BradA1878]

Thanks guys, he must be confused for sure he lifted up a male 4 month old pit puppy(on leash) a few days ago.
He does very well small corrections in class as well. The last thing I worry about him is being my protector, he is too important to me.
He listens well, I guess he won't be off leash at the beach anymore. It is a bad situation

At the risk of sounding like a I'm lecturing, I just want to make one point: Don't forget what he is.

Certainly a guardian/fighting breed can make a great companion, and it's wonderful that you care so much for him that you would be his protector before you would ask him to be yours. I know that feeling. But it will not change what he is - and that is a guardian/fighting breed - he will always want to protect what he values (you).

I think you are smart to keep him on leash as that is part of protecting him. If he were to hurt a dog or a person you run a high risk of losing him. So, keeping him on lead and knowing who he is and what he is will be the best way to keep him safe.

Good luck!

 

[Cody]

Well said Brad

 

[BradA1878]

Well said!

Well said Brad

Thanks!

 

[Ned666]

Thanks Guys,
I'm Back, got an introduction routine in the house. That's fine.
I need to bring more people to the house though. And take him to public places more often.
I'm noticing he is being pretty twitchy, today I was walking him, and reach for him at one point and he cowared down.
He is also going to the vet for a blood test, which I will ask for a thyroid test, since all of this came out pretty much in the last 4 months. Hands make him very nervous outside even if they aren't moving much. Never saw my hands make him ever, once he gets over an introduction he is fine too.
I'm starting to think his aggresion is fear based, don't think anyone can just identify that a dog 100%
fear or dominance based aggresion. Any good book I can read, I search and search on the internet, not sure what is the right read.
I hope to help his fear and aggresion somehow.
I'm skeptical about dog trainers in general, my x-wife thought she hired a good one, didn't help at all when he was 10 months old.


Thanks,

Ned
Almost thought about doing a Cesar Millan thing, Trying to see what I can do...

 

[PuppyPaws]

I agree. Well said, Brad!

Ned, what do you mean when you say the "Cesar Millan thing"?

Good idea on the thyroid test just to be certain. It sounds like a lot of this started after your move. If he was used to more of a country life before and is now thrown into a city, suburbia life.... that is a HUGE transition. Lots of new sounds, people, places. I think he is still trying to readjust. I would also recommend with the above post about establishing a routine at the door. Very good way to take control of the door and put yourself in a better position to respond if need be. I would add that you continue other obedience training too. I hope your training class is going well. Hang in there!

 

[Ned666]

Thanks!!! Cesar Millan's dog training methods, as I almost paid for it. Not sure if that one will work.
I think I might go to a library and borrow a book or dvd before investing my own dough.
As in many things some info will be good some won't.

A part of my next step to socialization will be in public, at a bench, w/ Buddy laying down w/ a toy(KONG).
I think laying down while introductions even in public will be the best scenario.
Still have to pay attention to my girl Lola, it will work out.
I wonder if anyone gotten their mastiff out of the
zone at close to 3 years of age. Actually here it is more silent then where he is used to, since our fence lined up the country
road w/ plenty of pedestrians and cars going by. We will see, I'm open to suggestions...

 

[PuppyPaws]

I think you had mentioned in one of your posts, something along the lines of: "you take some your leave some". In reference to Cesar Millan, I would have to agree with that mindset.

I don't agree with his type of "alpha rolling" a dog, especially when it is bully type breed. It seems to work for him for the most part. I have seen a doge bite him on t.v. when doing this. (I think it was and english bulldog that bit him, if memory serves). He has years of experience and is generally good at reading and judging a dog's body language. Most people are not able to do the same. When it comes to owners alpha-rolling a dog, I am not a supporter.

There are other bits and pieces of Millan's stuff that is ok. Not sure what you meant by, "I almost paid for it." Are you talking about sending your dog to Cesar or buying his book or other materials? When you talk about introductions, are you talking about introductions with people or dogs while your dog is laying down??

How are things going?

 

[Dogue]

well said puppypaws. a mixure of both is best. i'm not a fan of cesar though. especially his kidney kicks to get a dog distracted or to stop a behavior like perseverating on an object. not a fan.

 

[Ned666]

Thanks guys,
I meant as buying his online lessons or dvds.
Introductions w/ Buddy laying down when meeting people might be the best.
I'm waiting for my roommate to move out to kick him out of my bedroom as well.
Don't think it is a good communication method to bully a bull breed by kicking them either.
It is going OK, I need a little more time before I can do the full on socialization routine.

 

[PuppyPaws]

Oh, I thought that might be what you meant about Cesar, but wasn't sure.
Introductions with him laying down might be o.k. Just be careful not to let the greeters hover over him. That might be a bit intimidating to a fearful or nervous dog. Keep the greetings calm and the approach to the dog or the approach of the dog to the person, slow.

I also like to tell people when they go to "pet" a dog, try to make it an underhand approach vs. an over hand approach. When someone moves their hand "over" a dog's head, the dog can only visually track (see) the hand for so long. The dog will likely tense up and close his eyes, because he doesn't know where exactly the hand will land or how hard it will land. This is even more true for dogs that have been abused, beaten, or often reprimanded with pop to the head or with a newspaper for doing something wrong. Sometimes it is pretty severe and when they see a "hand" coming at them, they back away. This is being "hand-shy". With an underhand approach, the dog can better see where the hand is going and will tensen a little less. But remember it should be a "slow" approach of the hand. I'm not sure I explained that all that well. I hope it made sense. Good luck and keep us updated

Oh yeah, Dogue... Definately BOO to the Kidney Kicks!

 

[Cody]

I would just like to interject on the Cesar Milan thing, he has some good points BUT have you ever seen him use these techniques on a working breed?
No?
He doesn't, because a working breed will not back down. They were bred to not back down.
When ever Cesar has a large working breed he slowly gains trust, usually with no eye contact and food.
I would be very careful using Cesar's way, and maybe look at some Leerburg kennel video's instead http://leerburg.com/vidolist.htm