Behavior at 16 weeks

[EM Nani]

Sorry, I know there is a Training Forum, but I figured I'd ask here for an EM owner take on this matter......... Nani is pushing 16 weeks and we've been told by many on-lookers that she is very well behaved. However, we took her to a picture event with Santa today and there was this lady that said she had been a trainer for years and said that after watching Nani's behavior she recommended we get Nani on a prong collar immediately. Those of you using a prong collar please do not take offense to my next comment, but is it really necessary on 16 week old EM? Our girl was the youngest pup there, the next being 13 months, yes she was tugging on her harness, but she wasn't jumping or barking; she was just really excited to see all the pups and people there. With owner's permission we allowed Nani to sniff and say hello to some of the dogs and their owners. Once she was able to say hi, she would just sniff and lick, but no jumping, mouthing, or barking. I would think that for her age, she was well-behaved.

 

[Smokeycat]

No, the only reason to get a prong collar in my opinion is if it is needed to help with existing issues and not to 'prevent' possible future issues that may or may not develop. I do use one with Kryten, I got it because he had developed severe pulling on leash following a medically enforced break from regular walks. I had 170 lbs of 'I'm so excited about getting to go for a walk again that I lost my brain.' That incident really taught me how important continual training is. Use it or lose it.
I did a lot of start/stop training with both of my dogs to training them to a loose leash. I repeated that training after Kryten's surgery, the prong just worked like power breaks in a car a small correction gave a better message to him that basically choking him on his flat collar.

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[Hiraeth]

My mom trained her dog to roll over 10 years ago. So I guess that means she's been a dog trainer for a decade. My point being that a lot of people say they're "dog trainers" and don't know sh*t about dog training.

I'd recommend ignoring that idiot just like I ignored the guy who insisted that my Great Dane puppy was part Dalmatian the other day. It sounds like your puppy was very well behaved for her age and while I don't have a problem with prongs used correctly as training tools, I don't think they're necessary until a behavior that needs to be trained or managed presents itself.

 

[season]

I've used a prong with Solo since the day I brought him home at three months. It's a safe and human tool if used properly. I use it every time we go on walks or out and about in public.


Carpe Diem

 

[season]

Use what u want and use it the right way. It's not the tool (in this case the collar) it's the owner using it wrong that makes any tool ineffective. I will say this about the prong, it's much safer than any other collar if u need to communicate/correct your dog since it equalizes pressure around the whole neck and not just a localized point.


Carpe Diem

 

[Boxergirl]

I would never start a pup on a prong. I'm with Smokeycat and Hiraeth in that I only step up the correction level of a tool if I see signs that a certain behavior is likely to become a problem. I've not actually had to consider using a prong since I learned other ways to achieve my training goals. I also get that it's the owner using it wrong, but the truth is that most people have no idea how to use a prong. Many trainers use it incorrectly as well. Personally, I like the LIMA approach to training. Least intrusive, minimally aversive. Least Intrusive, Minimally Aversive (LIMA) approach

 

[TWW]

Just because a person is a "dog trainer", don't mean a lot, there are some awful trainers when it comes to giant breeds, they look at the size of the pup and there go to is a prong collar for control.

No there is nothing wrong with using it as Season does. It's a tool. A good one used correctly.

Though as long as you put in the time and training, in a lot of cases you don't need one. If there comes a time where you find, there is a pulling issue, get one. (Take the time and learn the correct sizing and the proper use beforehand though.)

Most likely this means that trainer fears they could not handle the dog without one.

There are also some really good trainer who have just had bad experiences with EM's.

Know one who told me, she hated every time someone brought in a 6 to 12 month old one into her classes. Because it ment most likely they had got the dog and done zero training or rules so now they had a 75 to 120+ pup who was out of control.

Told her I knew a lot of small breed owners that had awful dogs and a lot more with issues. She said the difference between screwing up a Chihuahua compared to screwing up with a mastiff breed is about the same as comparing, wrecking a tricycle to wrecking a ducati at a 100mph.

 

[DennasMom]

If you think you pup is well behaved, and she listens to you when you need her to - she's well behaved by definition (IMHO).

At 16 weeks you still have lots of work ahead of you, and yes, a puppy should still be able to be a puppy, too (again, IMHO).

We've never used a prong on Denna... never needed one. I don't have anything against prongs, they can be VERY useful, but I don't see any reason to use one on a puppy - unless the puppy is adamant about ignoring you otherwise. The same logic pretty much could apply to a dog at any age, too.

We did clicker/marker training for the most part, and we both had a BUNCH of fun training - and learning how to communicate with each other.

 

[teodora]

i'd try a harness/head collar - Easy Walk or Gentle Leader - first. And only if needed.

 

[Hiraeth]

I personally dislike head collars for giant breeds. If your puppy lunged forward with a Halti or Gentle Leader, she could do some very severe and perhaps lasting damage to her neck. The harness is less likely to harm her, though she could still flip herself over if she were to lunge with it on. I've been dedicated to leash walking and focus in public since the day I brought Titan home. I expect him to reach 170-180 lbs when full grown. And I expect to never have to use anything on him except for a plain flat collar. He's a naturally good walker, as it sounds like your puppy is. If it's not broken, don't try to fix it

 

[Wilsy]

I don't know if this is your first time owning a giant breed dog, but you will probably find that just because you have a giant breed dog, alot of (generally random and uneducated) people will decide to give you advice regardless of whether you asked for it lol! The question is do you think there is a problem? At 16 weeks you won't be very far into her training but if you think there is a problem then do something about it, if you don't think there is a problem then just continue with the puppy training you are doing. Personally I think it's wrong to say you must put your puppy on a prong, there are many training tools you may wish to use, a prong may or may not be one of them and of course you may not even need one!

 

[teodora]

Sure, everyone on the street is a dog expert. Well, some of them are nice, and any advice is welcome of course - as long as they don't insist they know better.

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[EM Nani]

Thank you all for your comments and insight. Besides the puppy mouthing, I do believe she is well behaved. We are continuing her socialization and plan to enroll her into more classes. She is our first giant breed pet and were warned by the breeder that a lot of people will have comments once they find out her breed. I hope not to use a prong collar in the future, but I know that some circumstances may warrant them. As of right now, we will stick to her ruffwear harness.

 

[teodora]

Check her armpits - we had a lot of issues with harnesses on big pups, raw skin and pain while walking ...

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[EM Nani]

Check her armpits - we had a lot of issues with harnesses on big pups, raw skin and pain while walking ...Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Her first harness seemed to rub her armpits, but the ruffwear brand doesn't. Her girth is growing about an inch each week, so we've been adjusting it as needed.

 

[season]

At the end of the day u can use whatever tool you want to use. It's not the prong, or the flat collar or the harness or anything else that hurts dogs. Humans do. Too much love and and affection without rules and boundaries hurts dogs. Not properly leading your dog hurts them. I know some say don't use a prong unless you need to or if your dog isn't listening etc. I don't get that logic. That's like saying don't start exercising until u are overweight and it's needed. I'd rather do something right away so I don't have to try something else. A prong does not hurt the dog or puppy. Just like flat collars or harnesses don't. But any collar can harm a dog/puppy if not used correctly by the owner. Not to mention a prong won't choke. I hope u find something that works for u. Good luck.


Carpe Diem

 

[Hiraeth]

There's a difference between using a prong as a management tool and as a training tool. Training with an aversive is the use of the tool to instill behavior so that eventually the tool isn't necessary. Management is the use of an aversive tool with no plans of ever making the tool unnecessary.

I have used prongs briefly on two of my dogs with the goal of eventually not needing a prong to have them under control. In that circumstance, it was a training tool.

Using a prong on a dog for the rest of its life, while not cruel, is not a training method. It's a management method. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's important to acknowledge those differences.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Using a flat leash collar is management by that analogy. Train your dog to be obedient off leash.

 

[Hiraeth]

Using a flat leash collar is management by that analogy. Train your dog to be obedient off leash.

Mine are. Collars and leashes are required in most public places, however