Are Flock Guardian Breeds suitable for suburban life?

[Marrowshard]

I'd never seen an Estrela ... certainly an attractive dog! I can see why you're drawn to them and the breeder site looks great. Definitely keep us posted on your decisions and of course, puppy pics

~Marrow

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

I have only seem 2 that moved her with university professors and they are a handsome couple walking down the street. Glad you were able to get some imput here from Brad as he has some beautiful dogs and Ang (OHF) with her CAS. Both have made me want a guardian breed but where I currently reside it isn't a possibility. Now once we are on the 12 acres... let the games begin LOL!

 

[northernmastiff]

Beautiful dogs all around. Loved the dogs on the video but I know they aren't for me. I live in the wrong area. We have a neighbor on one side with young kids who like to play right beside the fence, their yard is tiny especially with all the landscaping they did to it, the only place the kids can play is right beside the fence. LOL. The other side is woods but a number of people cut along our fence line on that side to get to the next street over. The back is a house with a strip of woods separating us from them but during the summer, the people on that part like to party close to the woods and I could see a guardian breed just losing it over that. Also, the hair would kill my husband so...if I ever plan to go that route, I might just get one. Just kidding. But his allergies can't take anything longer than what a Lab has for a coat and even that is pushing it.

Goodluck with your puppy and looking forward to seeing pictures when you do bring him/her home.

 

[BradA1878]

Thanks Brad!

So your recommendation is basically to make sure the parents are very well tempered and to get a pup that would show less agressive tendencies...and in that case it MIGHT do okay in a suburban setting...basically no garuntees. That's fine I'll most likely pass on the breed as I don't want to run into an issue say...if a kid is riding a scooter around the block and the CO has never seen a scooter and decides the kids a threat and takes off over the fence.

Is there another breed that you would recommend that has great guardian tendencies but that might do better in a more residential atmosphere? This is my only concern

I'm happy to help.

I looked at Estrela Mountain Dog before we got our COs, they are neat dogs.

I honestly think most of the other LGD breeds would be easier in suburbia because they are generally not human-aggressive. The CO and CAO are about the only human-aggressive LGD out there, and the CAO is not nearly as human aggressive as the CO is. You can make the other LGDs human-aggressive by not socializing them, but they are typically no human-aggressive if socialized properly.

This is why we got CO, we want a breed that would work as an LGD and be human-aggressive.

If you are ok with drool, I would check out the Spanish Mastiff: http://www.lgdnevada.com/Spanish_Mastiffs.php

 

[ruthcatrin]

If you are ok with drool, I would check out the Spanish Mastiff: http://www.lgdnevada.com/Spanish_Mastiffs.php

*drools* Damn...

My husband and I were talking about TM's in reference to a suburban setting after this thread. I do think some of the softer TMs might be ok, but it would take some work. I HAVE a soft tempered TM. Chances of him going over a fence to attack a (non-aggressive) person are pretty much non-exsistant, even in the setting of an unfamilier scooter or the like. Now someone standing on the far side of the fence yelling at me? That would be a different story. But I also think he'd go neurotic trying to keep track of everything going on around him.

On the other hand, now that we've experienced a guardian breed in our lives? I can't picture not having one. This is a type of dog we'll probly always own.

 

[BradA1878]

*drools* Damn...

My husband and I were talking about TM's in reference to a suburban setting after this thread. I do think some of the softer TMs might be ok, but it would take some work. I HAVE a soft tempered TM. Chances of him going over a fence to attack a (non-aggressive) person are pretty much non-exsistant, even in the setting of an unfamilier scooter or the like. Now someone standing on the far side of the fence yelling at me? That would be a different story. But I also think he'd go neurotic trying to keep track of everything going on around him.

On the other hand, now that we've experienced a guardian breed in our lives? I can't picture not having one. This is a type of dog we'll probly always own.

You know, I left out the TM in my post above. I didn't mean too... They are considered an LGD, huh? So, then I should have listed them along with CO and CAO as examples of LGD breed who are naturally human-aggressive as well as predator-aggressive.

Sorry TMs! I didn't mean to leave you out.

BTW - I looked at TMs before COs too. I LOVE TMs, I just never found any that I felt were tough enough. But, I was probably not looking in the right places...

 

[ruthcatrin]

Technically they're considered a LGD, I don't think they're ideal for it, but yah, they're usually classified as a LGd. It dependson the dogs. The average US bred TM is not as tough as a CO, yah, that I can agree with.

We did much the same, we looked at the CO, and decided we didn't need that hard a dog!

 

[cheebamaster]

What conclusion did you come to on the Estrela Mountain Dog Brad? I'm alomst 100% going with this type of dog. I love the looks/temperament etc...I think it's a really good "medium" so to speak. Not as unmanageable as a CO but not a softie either. It's just REALLY hard to find any good information on the breed

 

[DDBsR4Me]

How about a Leonberger?

I know they aren't a LGD...and I don't know how they are with guarding. A family friend had one when I was a child and I remember him being a pretty formidable guy.

 

[BradA1878]

What conclusion did you come to on the Estrela Mountain Dog Brad? I'm alomst 100% going with this type of dog. I love the looks/temperament etc...I think it's a really good "medium" so to speak. Not as unmanageable as a CO but not a softie either. It's just REALLY hard to find any good information on the breed

At the time I was looking for a young adult dog who I could add to the family and could get right to work, as we were having predation issues and I couldn't wait for a puppy to mature. When I was looking there were not a lot of LGD options (breeders) out there who were producing the type of dog I wanted and none of them could grantee their dogs would mix well with our other dogs. I chatted with Cindy at TrailsEnd Estrelas a lot and I have a good friend over in Portugal who helped me find the breed. Unfortunately, Cindy didn't have any young adults she could part with, so I had to look at other breeds. I was also concerned her dogs may not be human-aggressive enough for what I was looking for. I did really like her and her dogs tho.

 

[dogman#1]

COs... sorry guys but I really dont like these dogs... They have a really sharp temperament with strangers that I love, HOWEVER I have never met one that wasnt VERY dog agressive and there are just WAY too many instances of them biting their owners, very bad nerve etc... I wouldnt hesitate to get one if those issues werent so prevelent... i have kids and cant deal with a weak nerved dog or one that might snap at them especially one that size. BTW I own Fila Brasileiros so I know how great it is to have a giant protection breeds that protects on pure instinct.

 

[BradA1878]

COs... sorry guys but I really dont like these dogs... They have a really sharp temperament with strangers that I love, HOWEVER I have never met one that wasnt VERY dog agressive and there are just WAY too many instances of them biting their owners, very bad nerve etc... I wouldnt hesitate to get one if those issues werent so prevelent... i have kids and cant deal with a weak nerved dog or one that might snap at them especially one that size. BTW I own Fila Brasileiros so I know how great it is to have a giant protection breeds that protects on pure instinct.

I have met some COs that were very dog aggressive, however ours have not been. Luytiy is really great with all our other dogs.

Here ya go, Luytiy and Kodi with some of our male Kai Ken - all intact males...
[video=youtube;F8lh3hMtJMM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8lh3hMtJMM[/video]

 

[allsierra123]

any reason your looking for LGD's? I mean if people agressive is what your looking for there are some seriously hard breeds. Look into a fila They arent really a LGD but they are an estate or plantation guardian.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Brad, you and Ang's dogs makes me want a LGD breed badly! They are truely beautiful! Maybe when we are on our land lot I will be contacting you both about finding one as we are going to be in a heavily wooded area and I would like something that will protect the other dogs as well as (and shhhh don't tell Scott) my horse

 

[ruthcatrin]

any reason your looking for LGD's? I mean if people agressive is what your looking for there are some seriously hard breeds. Look into a fila They arent really a LGD but they are an estate or plantation guardian.

I'm going to stick my nose in, but I don't think its "people aggressive" thats the attraction here. I KNOW it wasn't for me. Infact if I'd run across the Fila during my dog search they'd have been ruled out due to the EXPECTATION that they don't do strangers.

A LGD guards its charge, be it family, flock, herd. Properly socialized and trained they aren't "people aggressive" (even CO's), they're "aggressive in the pursuit of their guardianship". For a breed like the CO (or the harder tempered TMs) that does mean that they won't hesitate to attack a human who they have deemed a threat. Which makes them "people aggressive" as far as most folks view it. I realize its a fine line, but it makes a difference. It also doesn't mean that you won't get individual dogs who's "threat meter" is to sensitive resulting in a dog who's non-tolerant of other dogs or non-bonded people.

They're also highly independent and intelligent dogs in ways you otherwise get only from the primitive breeds (heck some of them ARE primtives). And they usually have a "presence" to them that you don't get with many other breeds.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

I checked out the spanish mastiff before seem like impressive dogs.

Blackshadow, same here I will definitely have a farm so I would need both protection for my animals and myself. Problem is finding a good CO, CAO, Kangal without all the hype......

Brad that video made me smile. As evident there are good and bad examples of each breed.

 

[ruthcatrin]

LOVE Brad's video's of his dogs. I think it was Luytiy I saw in a video almost going over a 7ft fence? Could be wrong, I don't have time to dig out the video right now...

 

[cheebamaster]

Great video! Also, thanks for the info on the Estrela Cindy has been great.

When you were researching CO's/finding breeders did you come across http://www.courageouscaucasians.com/ I believe her name is Jackie. She is listed as a breeder on akc and other various sites and I really enjoyed a conversation with her. She has been breeding CO's for quite some time and said she ships off about half her puppies to residential areas and could put me in contact with people who live in suburbia areas to talk about their experience and the dog...only thing I found weird was that she lists her dogs at 1350$ whereas other breeders charge 2500$

Anyway, I'm almost def going with the Estrela but figured I'd ask if anyone knows about her/her dogs

 

[BradA1878]

any reason your looking for LGD's? I mean if people agressive is what your looking for there are some seriously hard breeds. Look into a fila They arent really a LGD but they are an estate or plantation guardian.

It was me who brought up human-aggression... I am not sure the OP wants a human-aggressive dogs, just to be clear.

Brad, you and Ang's dogs makes me want a LGD breed badly! They are truely beautiful! Maybe when we are on our land lot I will be contacting you both about finding one as we are going to be in a heavily wooded area and I would like something that will protect the other dogs as well as (and shhhh don't tell Scott) my horse

Thanks!

Brad that video made me smile. As evident there are good and bad examples of each breed.

Thanks! Yep, there are good and bad examples of every breed.

LOVE Brad's video's of his dogs. I think it was Luytiy I saw in a video almost going over a 7ft fence? Could be wrong, I don't have time to dig out the video right now...

Yep, that was Luytiy: http://www.bradanderson.org/blog/2011/03/luytiy-tries-to-jump-our-7-foot-fence/

What's interesting about that video is that Luytiy is actually a relativity small CO - only around 120lbs at working weight. The larger CO I have owned, like Kodi and Naum, who were 150-180 pounds, never tried to jump a fence. Perhaps it was due to their size, or due to the fact that they were not nearly as aggressive as Luytiy is.

When you were researching CO's/finding breeders did you come across http://www.courageouscaucasians.com/ I believe her name is Jackie. She is listed as a breeder on akc and other various...

Yes, I have talked to Jackie, a long time ago. She has always sold her dogs for less, not sure why. I've heard she has had trouble placing them in the past so maybe that is why.

I didn't go with her dogs because most of them come down from a very popular stud dog named DEMON. He is famous for "stamping" his "type" on the line of dogs he produces and people inbreed heavily on his linage. I personally am not a fan of DEMON, the dogs that come down from that line are not aggressive enough for me. Also, they tend to be "wet" in type and less athletic. The closest I came to the DEMON line was Naum, and Naum was a very large, sloppy, soft CO.

The CO breeding community is horrible. Everyone hates everyone, and they do some really shady terrible things to each other. IMHO they are all to blame - there is no one breeder who is not to blame for the issues. So, what you have to do is look at the dogs, and what they produce. Meet some of the dogs that they have produced - don't take any breeder's word for things.

Once you find a line of CO you like, that you have seen with your own eyes in person, then ask yourself: Can I give this breeder my money and feel like I am making a good choice? If yes, then do it. But DO NOT get a CO from any of the breeders in North America w/o meeting the dogs they have produced in person. This is what I did and I feel like I had above average success with my CO.

 

[allsierra123]

I misread what he is wanting maybe. Seems he wants a guardian that would be safe to have in a neighborhood. It is doable I have Delilah in a suburban setting.

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