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A Great Man Has Passed, and the World Is Painfully Less Without HIM!

Bailey's Mom

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Today Senator John McCain has passed away. The American People have lost a Hero, a Statesman, an Honourable Man.

Even though I am Canadian, I realize the World has lost a great light...I realize that a Giant of a Man has passed. And even though I would have argued vehemently with him on many issues, he would never have been my enemy, he would have always been my friend and have had my respect.

In all the "would haves" and "could haves" of life, there will be the question of what type of president he would have been, and, I think, he would have been great, except for his choice of VP, which I felt was a tactical mistake.

Still, I know Senator McCain would have made his country proud had he become the president, and he would have received honour and respect from both his allies and his enemies. In his personal life, his military service, his political life...this man was a LION. Who can replace him? Who has the strength of character to fill this good man's shoes? I can't think of a single person.

McCain's passing feels similar to losing the Kennedys and losing Martin Luther King. I imagine that he will now take his place in history among the greatest men of the American People, and he will forever remain a shinning example of a patriotic and honourable man. And I can only hope that some young people will follow his lead, serve their country with honour, overcome hardship and suffering, and rise above it all to share the hallmarks of decency, honour, service and true patriotism.

My respects to the McCain family and to the American people on their great loss.

E.
 

kingmark

Well-Known Member
I must fully disagree with you, mcain is not a hero he is warcriminal who is responsible for death of hundred thousands if not millions and most of them are innocent civilians. There isnt a single thing that made mcain hero not even in american eyes, his acts of war and aggresion on peaceful people is something only evil man can do ,well no more warmongering from that scum! That is my honest opinion as i belive almost whole worlds also is!
 

marke

Well-Known Member
good men have bad ideas too …… I believe his intentions were always honorable ..... they were certainly honest , he offered his life for them …… he would have been content to see the whole world a free democracy …………. won't work here , I guarantee you it works where he is now ……...
 

Bailey's Mom

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Kingmark, I don't think you realize that your attack on Senator McCain will reflect badly on you. Generally when you vehemently disagree with someone or their life, you don't piss on their grave. And, being myself ex-military, I do not view military service as a war crime, but as duty and obligation.
Even Sen. McCain's political enemies loved him as a man, as a patriot, as a wounded warrior who suffered torture for years and came out the other side without hatred, instead working upon reconciliation. He even went so far as to visit with and forgive his former torturers. He was an amazing man.
He served his country his entire adult life and was always recognized as a passionate patriot. No one ever accused him of being in politics for personal gain, they respected him and his strength of purpose, most called him friend and loved him.
 

Bailey's Mom

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
I was hoping to hear tributes from some of you, especially those that served in the armed forces and know the price that this man paid to serve his country.
 

Nik

Well-Known Member
My politics did not align with McCain's and while I believe he certainly did have what I consider some major character flaws I also have no doubt that he was a patriot and a hero. He refused his release as a prisoner of war despite torture unless his fellow soldiers were also freed. Whatever else his personal flaws that alone makes him a hero. I doubt anyone would blame anyone in that same situation for taking the freedom offered given the circumstances. And despite party affiliation he spoke out against wrongs perpetuated by his own party and leadership in more recent times. Perhaps this was the freedom of knowing he was not long for the world so had nothing to lose from being honest with his convictions but whatever the motivations it was nice to hear a voice speaking for honor regardless of party affiliation rather than simply towing the party line blindly.

I am saddened by his passing and disgusted by the disrespect our current president and administration has shown. His prior jailor has shown more respect, feeling, and thoughtfulness over McCain's passing than our president has.
 

Bailey's Mom

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Thank You, Nik. I too was on the other side of the aisle being a liberal at heart, but My Heart Recognized A True Man, an Honourable Man, A Man Who Couldn't Be Bought, Couldn't be Sold. And, I suppose, my military service also informs me that you honour the men who give their lives for their country...McCain didn't die, but he was changed and hardened and sharpened and refined by the fire of his service. Men and women from both sides of the aisle found counsel with him...found friendship with him, and they could see the decency in him when he refused to abuse or allow to be abused his rival for the presidency, Barak Obama. This was a decent man. And, all the other screaming, howling, toddies that follow the present inhabitant of the White House wouldn't be worthy of licking McCain's boots.

Insult to injury to fury, raising the flag at the White House to Full Staff, minutes after midnight. Such pettiness...such lack of honour and decency. McCain wouldn't have dishonoured even his enemies in this way, he would have given service and honour their just due.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
having known someone who underwent radiation and chemo therapy for brain cancer , I attribute Mccain's final behavior to just that ……… as far as the presidents disrespect , it was in life not death , it was mutual , and was actually set off by sen.Mccain's misrepresentation of his words in not supporting his run for president …..………. as far as the left , it's the enemy of my enemy is my friend mentality ……….. they'll take anything they can get , it's dizzying ……...
 

Bailey's Mom

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Hmm... Well, I'm still taken aback by Trump's assertion that McCain wasn't a hero for surviving being a P.W.O., as he only liked people that hadn't been captured, and he reiterated, "He's no hero." So...who dealt the first blow...who denigrated who and why would it have been carried to the smack down of taking the flag off half-mast in an attempt to dishonour a man who had served his country for 60 years. Odd about that, his action had the effect of dishonouring every man, and woman in uniform, across the military. It was an attack on everyone who has ever served. It was petty and cruel and stupid.

I just saw a clip of him slamming McCain back in 1999 for the same thing... for being captured. It gives one pause to think about the meaning of integrity and decency, and how it is lacking today, especially in the highest office in the land.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
I do know Donald trump supported and voted for John Mccain in 2008 , as I did ………… as I said , he didn't like the guy in life , he didn't pretend he did , he has shown nothing but respect for the guy in death ……… McCain disparaged trump on his mexico is not sending their best statement , then the access Hollywood tapes , then called trump supporters "crazies" as he refused to attend a trump rally in Arizona ….. a month later trump made the "I like folks that don't get caught " ………as for going back 20yr to take a snippet of the guy asking "does getting caught make you a war hero ? I don't know ?" without any knowledge of what led that , is exactly what I call "dizzying " , that was a 60 minute segment with absolutely no lead into that statement ? the obvious answer to his question is no …… bo bergdhal is far from a hero , he should have been executed for getting captured ……….. in john mccains case the answer would be yes , as trump himself told don imus , you won't see the media digging that up , that fact doesn't spin so good ……. I think you'll have a problem finding American servicemen and law enforcement ( with the exception of the corrupt upper federal echelon ) that do not like the current president ….. I saw the guy who wrote gen Mattis's biography say if the president wasn't the real deal , not a chance in hell would Mattis even speak to him let alone work for him ……...
 

Nik

Well-Known Member
having known someone who underwent radiation and chemo therapy for brain cancer , I attribute Mccain's final behavior to just that ……… as far as the presidents disrespect , it was in life not death , it was mutual , and was actually set off by sen.Mccain's misrepresentation of his words in not supporting his run for president …..………. as far as the left , it's the enemy of my enemy is my friend mentality ……….. they'll take anything they can get , it's dizzying ……...

I have to agree to disagree with you on this. I am definitely on the left of most issues but I am not a party as team type as so many on both the left and right are these days. I vote based on the issues and I vote based on what I believe is right and best for the country, for any future children I may have and for myself. I have said it about a million times to those I am close to. I thought W was as bad as it could get. i was appalled by his lack of intelligence among many other things. Then came Trump and I was shocked that anything could make W. look good. But, Trump manages to make anyone who came before him look good. And I say that not based on only what the media covers as I know so many on the Trump bandwagon like to decry how biased the media is. I say it also based on his actions, based on watching his own words both on Twitter (unfiltered by bias), his own interviews and his own statements. One can complain about media bias all they want but an intelligent human need only look at action and listen to an individual's own words to form a cohesive picture of that individual. Quite frankly Trump is not simply a terrible president he is an abhorrent human by every measure I could bring to the table.

Where McCain is concerned it is not an enemy of my enemy situation (for me personally). It is watching all the insanity unfold and looking on in horror as everyone on the right simply falls in line like good little minions. Our representatives are supposed to serve the people, serve the country... not the president. Blindly accepting, defending and following the president is not patriotism if you see that something is wrong. That is how the whole Hitler thing happened. Blind acceptance of leadership. So, yes, anyone who intelligently questions problematic decision making, actions or statements despite going against the herd mentality has my respect.. It is rare these days. These days it is "us vs. them" "Go team red" or "Go team blue" when it should be about what is best for the people as a whole. Because if you take away that stupid team mentality and look at the people and talk about the actual issues then I am willing to bet that you have more in common than you think and actual headway could be made.

Furthermore, I don't see how anyone can possibly infer that Trump did not disrespect McCain in death when he specifically refused to allow a statement to go out about McCain and instead settled on an extremely generic "thoughts and prayers" tweet. For goodness sake the guy who held McCain as a war prisoner had kinder and more meaningful words to share about his passing. And then there was the whole flag debacle. It paints a pretty clear picture of the sort of petty childishness we have become accustomed to from this man.
 

Bailey's Mom

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Yes, Nik, you are an Orator at heart. You said it very well. And, I started this thread to honour the man, not bash the president; however, it's hard to do one without acknowledging the negativity (I'd say jealousy of the other.) And to that point, someone reported today that the reason he refused to budge and give McCain his due was because he said it was over the top for someone like McCain and such honours should be reserved for presidents. Heaven help us all, the next three days will drive him wild as his "enemy?" is lionize and remembered and honoured throughout the land.

I was glad when McCain "disinvited the president" regarding his funeral. It would have been an abuse of his Widow and his Family to have allowed Trump to turn that sacred event into a Trump spectacle, throwing a tantrum about his needs and his wants and "whatabout me talk."

Oh Trump will get his State Funeral someday, just not now, and, I predict not with the love and affection that will follow McCain to Annapolis, to his resting place next to his friend of 50 years. Yes, someone else is getting the military parade, but it is given to a fallen warrior, hero, friend, servant of the people. The phrase, "can't hold a candle to him" runs through my mind.

And Marke, I understand that you felt, regardless of his many faults, that he was an honourable man who tried to do his best for the American people...I appreciate that sentiment that you expressed. Thank you. However, I think you are wrong, the military and law enforcement will be shown in the voter booth to not be on his side. I know how the military people of my acquaintance here, on this side of the border think of Trump's behaviour, and it was the nail in even the most right-wing supporter's coffin. You just don't dishonour a fallen hero, especially when you took FIVE deferments to avoid serving your country.
 
Last edited:

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
"...as far as the left , it's the enemy of my enemy is my friend mentality"

McCain was a member of the Republican Party.
That does not make him an "enemy" of members of the Democratic Party. Him voicing his misgivings about aspects of the Trump Administration (not all... he still voted for many of Trump's policies, as has all of the GOP in Congress) as well as Trump the person does not make him an "enemy" of Trump, either.

We are All Americans.
No matter party affiliation.
We are all (supposed to be) on the same side.

McCain was known to mentor ANY and ALL incoming congresspeople - regardless of party affiliation. He knew the value in negotiations and compromises. Something lost in today's "enemy mentality" political atmosphere.

He made plenty of mistakes, and he owned up to them. He allowed his beliefs to evolve, he grew, he matured... then he agreed to have Palin as a running mate and it all went to s#!t.
He survived that, but I don't think the GOP did... they doubled-down on dumb and embraced it. :(

I think the US is better when strong conservatives and strong progressives can sit down and find the 3rd path... a better path for all.
Without McCain, the GOP is going to retreat even further off the edge with no string tying them to the negotiating table.

I am proud to be a liberal, but truly believe America lost a great voice with the passing of McCain. I hope someone with integrity picks up his mantle and carries the torch forward.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
what exactly did bush do that was so horrible ?

media bias ? the folks that will be complaining are folks believing all this ridiculous crap , their being taken for fools …... everyday is the worst , everyday is a calamity bigger than the day before ……were I work all our payrates have gone up due to competition , and by dollars , not cents , finding employees is close to impossible , they get jobs before we can contact them , don't respond half the time and don't show up a quarter of the time …. we got so much work were farming some out , I been in this industry for more than 40yrs , I've never seen it like it is right now ……….


a billionaire living in new York city , and folks are going back 20yrs to find offensive remarks , the frikin guy must be an almost mother Theresa if that's all they can get ???? Russia collusion , obstruction of justice , and he's not a nice person , his attorney is a crook , he won't show his tax information , a bunch of scummy wanna be political big shots tried to get close to him during his campaign , i'm sure that doesn't usually happen ? he paid off a couple affairs he didn't want made public , how odd ? he is tearing nursing babies from their moms breast , he's a white supremacist , he's gonna start a nuclear wwlll , he's hitler , a fascist , he's gonna make other countries not like us , didn't Obama go on an apology tour because they didn't like us then ? as if liking us has anything to do with anything ? and of course sidling up to putin , we'll all be living on borscht , the Russians are coming !!! my son in law is Russian , I knew I shouldn't have trusted him ……


united states is a welfare state , we take care of people who can't take care of themselves , politicians advocating universal income , open borders , send us your unemployable !!!! universal health care , free college , non-citizens voting rights , even if they're Russian ? we're 21-22 trillion dollars in debt , last I checked the government doesn't make a product they profit on ? they lose money on every service they provide , they lose working folks money , they have no money of there own ….. i'm sure some of them are actually caring beyond votes , they're just mathematically impaired ……


any thought on china ???? tariffs ? is that enough ? shouldn't we sanction them for human rights violations , shouldn't we not allow American businesses to do business with china ???? sanction anyone who does ? the south china sea ? Tibet ? wasn't mao the greatest mass murderer in the history of the world ? he doubled stalins total ……. was said about che guevera , he was rather brave executing innocent civilians , but cowardly when caught by the bolivians , I had a guy worked for me swam here from cuba on an inner tube , not whole lot of americans swimming to cuba to escape the US ……… Venezuela , my ex brother in law translated documents in Iraq for the United States , his family fled to America and Venezuela , you need to hear those stories about Venezuela and sadam hussien …………


I wonder if the left realizes that the economy is very much tied to public belief , what the public thinks …any administration that wasn't positive about everything , no matter what , true or not , i'd be interested in knowing which ones that'd be ????? thinking about it , they do know , it's why they are doing what they are doing , to hopefully harm the economy and make the president ineffective as possible …….. it's their job as politicians , convince whoever they can the "sky is falling" ……………

could you point out some of the "all the insanity unfolding ?" and the "problematic decision making" ? HITLER??????? hitler kinda started by getting control of the weapons of his opposition , what is your stance on gun control seeing as someone like hitler could get elected president in the united states ??????






"...as far as the left , it's the enemy of my enemy is my friend mentality"

McCain was a member of the Republican Party.
That does not make him an "enemy" of members of the Democratic Party.

Hillary Clinton on her greatest enemy …………. around 34 seconds in

 

kingmark

Well-Known Member
Bailey and all others who whitewash mcain , we could go on in forever about this but i dont do politics i just said my honest opinion backed by pure facts. He was involved in every war and asking for more till his last stinking breath. I dont know maybe you like wars and killing but i and any normal person doesnt. As marke said russians are coming watch out!
 

Nik

Well-Known Member
what exactly did bush do that was so horrible ?

media bias ? the folks that will be complaining are folks believing all this ridiculous crap , their being taken for fools …... everyday is the worst , everyday is a calamity bigger than the day before ……were I work all our payrates have gone up due to competition , and by dollars , not cents , finding employees is close to impossible , they get jobs before we can contact them , don't respond half the time and don't show up a quarter of the time …. we got so much work were farming some out , I been in this industry for more than 40yrs , I've never seen it like it is right now ……….


a billionaire living in new York city , and folks are going back 20yrs to find offensive remarks , the frikin guy must be an almost mother Theresa if that's all they can get ???? Russia collusion , obstruction of justice , and he's not a nice person , his attorney is a crook , he won't show his tax information , a bunch of scummy wanna be political big shots tried to get close to him during his campaign , i'm sure that doesn't usually happen ? he paid off a couple affairs he didn't want made public , how odd ? he is tearing nursing babies from their moms breast , he's a white supremacist , he's gonna start a nuclear wwlll , he's hitler , a fascist , he's gonna make other countries not like us , didn't Obama go on an apology tour because they didn't like us then ? as if liking us has anything to do with anything ? and of course sidling up to putin , we'll all be living on borscht , the Russians are coming !!! my son in law is Russian , I knew I shouldn't have trusted him ……


united states is a welfare state , we take care of people who can't take care of themselves , politicians advocating universal income , open borders , send us your unemployable !!!! universal health care , free college , non-citizens voting rights , even if they're Russian ? we're 21-22 trillion dollars in debt , last I checked the government doesn't make a product they profit on ? they lose money on every service they provide , they lose working folks money , they have no money of there own ….. i'm sure some of them are actually caring beyond votes , they're just mathematically impaired ……


any thought on china ???? tariffs ? is that enough ? shouldn't we sanction them for human rights violations , shouldn't we not allow American businesses to do business with china ???? sanction anyone who does ? the south china sea ? Tibet ? wasn't mao the greatest mass murderer in the history of the world ? he doubled stalins total ……. was said about che guevera , he was rather brave executing innocent civilians , but cowardly when caught by the bolivians , I had a guy worked for me swam here from cuba on an inner tube , not whole lot of americans swimming to cuba to escape the US ……… Venezuela , my ex brother in law translated documents in Iraq for the United States , his family fled to America and Venezuela , you need to hear those stories about Venezuela and sadam hussien …………


I wonder if the left realizes that the economy is very much tied to public belief , what the public thinks …any administration that wasn't positive about everything , no matter what , true or not , i'd be interested in knowing which ones that'd be ????? thinking about it , they do know , it's why they are doing what they are doing , to hopefully harm the economy and make the president ineffective as possible …….. it's their job as politicians , convince whoever they can the "sky is falling" ……………

could you point out some of the "all the insanity unfolding ?" and the "problematic decision making" ? HITLER??????? hitler kinda started by getting control of the weapons of his opposition , what is your stance on gun control seeing as someone like hitler could get elected president in the united states ??????








Hillary Clinton on her greatest enemy …………. around 34 seconds in


I didn't call Trump Hitler. I said that the mentality where you simply accept and stand by a leader and ignore all of their faults is the exact mentality that led to Hitler being possible. Nobody should ever blindly accept every action or call that a leader makes. That is not patriotism, it is fascism.

As for the insanity... Pretty much every single one of his appointments has been ridiculous and the opposite of what it should be. And lets see what about making it legal to shoot a mom and cubs hibernating in their den? Are you down with that? I'm not.

He messed up the student loan repayment plans which directly effects me. Obama had actually made some tiny baby steps towards making the student loan repayment plans better by making payments tied to your income and believe me that saved me because I couldn't afford the payments prior to that. Now I am back to struggling to make payments.

Which brings us to your complaint about free education. Do you see it as a negative to have an educated populace? I think the best thing we could possibly do is make sure that all Americans have a higher education whether it be university or trade school. You can't have a productive society that competes on a global level if you don't support education and betterment. And you can't have a successful society if those that do choose to educate and better themselves are stuck paying it off for their entire lives. I have been graduated over 10 years and make a good income but I am nowhere near paying off my debt and it is unlikely I will have it paid off in the next ten years. I make my payments every month and it is a struggle. I would be contributing more to the economy overall if all of my money wasn't going to paying off student debt. How is that okay? How is that right? I did every single thing I should have in life. I was an honor student in HighSchool. I didn't have sex. I didn't do drugs. I got fabulous scores on my SATs, I got scholarships for college but not nearly enough to pay the whole outrageously priced thing. I worked while in school, I volunteered while in school, I interned while in school and I got straight As while in school. I graduated, I got a good job (lucky for me as so many didn't). So tell me exactly where I am a welfare, grasping, greedy whatever that republicans would want to call me because I think I shouldn't have to be paying for following the correct path my entire life. You think this system makes sense? Punishing the people who do what they should and are good contributing educated members of society? In other countries I could have followed this same path and would be doing much better than I am now rather than living paycheck to paycheck and praying every day that I never get sick or nothing bad befalls me, praying that economy doesn't slump... which brings us to your outrageous claim that the leftists want the economy to fail. You think I want my entire life to fall apart? Absolutely not. Which brings us to your question about what Bush did wrong? How about tanking the whole economy for one. And I felt that in a bad way just out of university. There was a hiring freeze, my company laid off most of its employees(not me thank god), there was a promotion freeze, there was a raise freeze, there were no bonuses... for years. But, did my student loan payments stop coming in? Nope. Did expenses go down? No, they went up with the soaring price of gas.

And absolutely nobody has to search for things Trump has said wrong. Go check out his twitter feed I bet he has said something offensive lately. Maybe his suggestion that we ought to regulate Google because he is sad that results about him show negative stuff. I work in the technology field and I know how Google algorithms work because I am SEO trained and current on my training because I have to be for my job. If he wants good stuff about him to pop up maybe he should hire an SEO consultant. Maybe he should refer Fox news to an seo consultant. That is all it takes. It isn't rigged and you have to be pretty uneducated and clueless to believe that. Then again the guy is a pathological liar so who knows whether he actually believes it or not.

Honestly there is so much in your response that I don't have the energy or desire to unpack it all. And I am sure you will feel the same about my response and that's fine and probably better because I have a feeling it is going to be a bit like slamming ones head against a wall, entirely unproductive.

So let me just say this to sum up my feelings:

Trump has not made a single move yet that I agree with.
He has not hired anyone who was appropriate for their job role.
His words and his behavior are an embarrassment that I feel I need to personally apologize for when I travel abroad.
If we somehow make it through his presidency with the economy intact I will be shocked and extremely grateful to come through this storm.
If we don't entirely destroy the environment and cause irreparable damage I will also be shocked and extremely grateful.

In response to what you think leftists want maybe keep in mind we aren't all the same and we tend to all have different opinions and feelings about stuff.
Me personally:
I don't believe in universal income. That seems rather extreme. But I do believe the wealthy need to actually pay their share of taxes rather than getting extra loop holes just because they pull the strings of the politicians.
I do believe in universal higher education for all. I think it would be beneficial to society, to advancement, to remaining competitive in a global economy.
I do believe in universal healthcare. If every citizen is vaccinated it helps maintain a herd immunity which is beneficial to everyone. If everyone has preventative medical care it helps minimize expenses for emergency services.
I am against corporate welfare (the biggest welfare offenders of all).
Open borders? Nope I don't believe in that. But, I also think there is a middle ground between terrorizing children and just allowing a free for all. I mean where's the common sense here?
Voting rights for non-citizens? That's ridiculous as well. Of course not.
I do believe in the death penalty but I don't think prisons should be a "for profit" system or that we should be encouraging a prison state as we currently are.
I am 100% prochoice, but also 100% pro sex education and making preventative education available to all.
And while we are on the subject of death I also believe in the right to die. Euthanasia is fine with me.
I am fine with people owning guns but I do think that there should be common sense regulations just as we have for getting a drivers license. You should have to be educated and know how to handle a fire arm and know the safety criteria in order to own a gun. You should also have a clear mental health record and a clean criminal record. Oh and if you shoot someone for any reason other than self defense you should lose all of your gun carrying rights.
I believe in marriage equality (how does someone marrying someone of the same sex effect me in any way whatsoever other than to create a more stable society since statistically married folk tend to be more law abiding).
And hunting - if you kill an endangered species you should be put to death... and no I am not kidding. I absolutely believe that. I did say I am pro death penalty.
I am not a bleeding heart liberal in fact sometimes I feel rather clinical and heartless about some topics. I don't have sympathy for criminals, addicts, etc and certain types of crimes I have no tolerance or sympathy for at all (sex crimes and crimes against animals being at the very top of that list ). I am a vengeful person rather than a kind person. I don't forgive. I don't forget. And I truly believe the world is better without the existence of some people (see above ie the types of crimes I have no sympathy for).
I also am not a special snow flake. Do I have feelings? Sure of course. Can my feelings get hurt? Uh do I have a pulse? And I do have a temper and very little tolerance for ignorance or stupidity. But, I also don't take even offensive jokes seriously. I know better than to perpetuate them though because I do have common sense. I have a higher tolerance than I should for all kinds of bs and in my experience it always seems to be my conservative friends and family who get a lot more offended a lot faster which is why I try really hard not to express my opinions very often. I'm pretty good at offending them even when I don't intend to oh but when they manage to annoy me.... oh lets just say when I don't hold back I can easily set their feelings on fire and add gasoline to the flames... Sooo that said we probably really should end this discussion. Or at least I should remove myself from it.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
I didn't call Trump Hitler. I said that the mentality where you simply accept and stand by a leader and ignore all of their faults is the exact mentality that led to Hitler being possible. Nobody should ever blindly accept every action or call that a leader makes. That is not patriotism, it is fascism.



if the faults are in regard to their job i'd agree …….. when I hire someone for a job , I judge them on how well they do the job I hired them for , not how I feel about them personally ……… nobody I know agrees with everything the president does , any president in my lifetime ….. your definition of fascism has a bit to be desired …………….


As for the insanity... Pretty much every single one of his appointments has been ridiculous and the opposite of what it should be. And lets see what about making it legal to shoot a mom and cubs hibernating in their den? Are you down with that? I'm not.




ridiculous would infer to me illogical ?an example would be ? seems to me he has appointed extremely well qualified people to his cabinet ? one of his strengths , imo , seems to be in hiring the right people for the job , unlike the previous president when trump came into this job he was experienced in that aspect ...…...…the economy seems to be going in the right direction …… the international affairs he's facing are worse than any president of my lifetime , thanks to Clinton , Obama and bush ignoring what needed done , and letting the US get in the position it is , something needs done on this front asap , before our position worsens … the bear cub thing ? they just removed the federal government from state business , they didn't advocate the killing of baby bears and their moms , the states control their hunting laws ,they still do , as far as shooting bear cubs , the federal government did not legalize it , the state hunting laws still apply if it's legal in a state , it's the state that makes it legal , because the state government deems it necessary and/or not harmful to the population , shooting hibernating momma bears and their cubs , rings of tearing nursing babies from their mom's breast , the guy must be an animal narrative !!!!!! marijuana is illegal federally , but legal in many states , the feds aren't bustin weed shops in Denver , do you think they should be ? …….. states rights ? seems to be a liberal desire when it suits them ?







He messed up the student loan repayment plans which directly effects me. Obama had actually made some tiny baby steps towards making the student loan repayment plans better by making payments tied to your income and believe me that saved me because I couldn't afford the payments prior to that. Now I am back to struggling to make payments.



what specific changes have occurred ? I really am not aware of any aside from tax deductions on discharged loans ? the interest rate has risen , I guess if you have a variable rate it would affect you ? interest rates were held at 0 for obamas entire 2 terms , 0 interest rates is not a sustainable practice , regardless that is a fed decision ? I believe it was Obama who tied student loan interest rates to the the markets , has nothing to do with trumps policies ? the high cost of college is not the government , I believe this administration is pressuring universities and colleges to help subsidize the cost ? student debt is becoming a potential national economic crisis , it needs addressed , "baby steps" aren't going to cut it , I would also wonder what baby steps Obama took ? best I could tell his economic policy was 0 interest rates and subsidize the economy with trillions of dollars of borrowed money , and ignore any problems ……. the housing crash was 6 trillion , I believe student debt is around 2 trillion and growing ? can you give me specific changes trump made that are detrimental to folks with student loans ? which by the way both of my daughters are paying also ? trump in a speech in ohio said ," one of the only things the government makes money on is student loans , and it's the one thing they shouldn't be making money on"



Which brings us to your complaint about free education. Do you see it as a negative to have an educated populace?




education is a must , both my daughters as their husbands are all highly educated , and their kids know education is not an option , as they did , it's been my belief for most all my life ………. "free " education , do you think free education is free?????? the government takes $1000 out of every one of my paychecks , I pay a ridiculous amount of property tax on a house I own outright , I pay 7-8% tax on everything I buy , 28 cents on every gallon of gas , I pay tax on my water , my phone , home heating , electric , I just was required to replace the city sidewalk in front of my house , only to have my property tax increased based on improvements ………… my math , which is pretty good , tells me nothing is "free"







I think the best thing we could possibly do is make sure that all Americans have a higher education whether it be university or trade school.




some of the dumbest folks I've met are educated …………… parenting is the problem , "educating" some of the folks i'm encountering won't help …….







You can't have a productive society that competes on a global level if you don't support education and betterment. And you can't have a successful society if those that do choose to educate and better themselves are stuck paying it off for their entire lives.




at my daughters graduation the first ones , I saw all these kids getting bachelor degrees in communication , psychology , business , and thought the majority of those kids are going end up in lawn care or sales ……….. my late wife had a degree in psychology , she worked in an hr department with folks some of which had high school educations ……I just today received a resume for a welding job from a woman with a bachelor degree in psychology , summa cum laude , if she would have spent the time it took to get that degree working on welding , she might have been qualified for the job …. a guy worked for me as a welder fitter for 20 plus yrs had a degree in political science and journalism ….. two guys with high school educations made more money than he did ………… you can't teach smart , parenting , proper direction , after that it's destiny …...







I have been graduated over 10 years and make a good income but I am nowhere near paying off my debt and it is unlikely I will have it paid off in the next ten years. I make my payments every month and it is a struggle. I would be contributing more to the economy overall if all of my money wasn't going to paying off student debt. How is that okay?







if the government wasn't taking that $1000 bucks out of my paycheck , i'd be contributing more to the economy myself , how is that ok ? more free stuff is gonna cost me more , to much free stuff and i'll be broke , it's not possible any other way . schools need threatened with regulation , maybe less tax exemptions , less government funding . drug companies need threatened with deregulation , hospitals and insurance companies threatened with government intrusion and deregulation ……… the politicians supported by lobbyist need removed , the good old boys club needs broken up ……. guys like steyer and soros need investigated , put a special council on those two crooks …..




I did every single thing I should have in life. I was an honor student in HighSchool. I didn't have sex. I didn't do drugs. I got fabulous scores on my SATs, I got scholarships for college but not nearly enough to pay the whole outrageously priced thing.




trump agrees with you on the cost of these colleges and universities , he's calling on schools with these outrageous endowments to help lower the cost ……. that isn't a government caused problem , that is the greedy boards of these schools , education is a tax exempt , federally subsidized , cash cow business that makes a lot of folks really rich , and other folks really poor …..





I worked while in school, I volunteered while in school, I interned while in school and I got straight As while in school. I graduated, I got a good job (lucky for me as so many didn't). So tell me exactly where I am a welfare, grasping, greedy whatever that republicans would want to call me because I think I shouldn't have to be paying for following the correct path my entire life.


i'm not anymore a republican than Donald trump is , or Reagan was , you don't sound like a "welfare , grasping , greedy person" to me ??????? and I doubt folks with my political leaning would draw the conclusion you think ? I think the fact you feel that way explains a lot ……….. the only thing I've seen fair in this life is how unfair it can be ……….. I grew up pretty poor , knew right from the get go nobody owed me anything , and wasn't giving me nothing …….. it don't take much to keep me happy , my kids did better than me , that is satisfying ……… my dogues , you couldn't buy the dogues I've had , I worked for them , I know dogs , you can't buy that ……...……….. Nick , I been around or a bit and it's true "you can't always get what you want …………..." , the government can’t give it to you either , anyone tells you they can is lying or misinformed …….. socialism fails because the people needed to fuel it have no incentive to do better……..capitalism is all about incentive , my incentive right now is to keep what I have obtained through this system , take away my stuff , tell me I’m getting what I’m getting and I’m quitting my job that same day …….







You think this system makes sense? Punishing the people who do what they should and are good contributing educated members of society? In other countries I could have followed this same path and would be doing much better than I am now rather than living paycheck to paycheck and praying every day that I never get sick or nothing bad befalls me, praying that economy doesn't slump...




what countries would that be ? the system doesn't punish people , life does , this system rewards perseverance ……. you understand a government doesn’t produce an income , they are an expense , ………. I've lived paycheck to paycheck my whole life , as do most folks I know , I had 2 kids by the time I was 20 ,their mother and I had high school educations ……. I had 3 people and a few dogs depending on me , nobody to help us but ourselves ……I worked for and got the stuff I own , and supported the government better than they'll ever support me … lifes tough , I've had fun , even when I was broke , I've always lived within my means , went to work sick and hurt more times than I could possibly remember , to keep my stuff , excelled at my job to get better jobs and more money , this system offers incentive ………..







which brings us to your outrageous claim that the leftists want the economy to fail.




"outrageous" I am past positive on that claim ……. not folks like you , folks like Pelosi , schumer , Schiff , waters , they need folks like you to feel the pain so they can offer to help you , for your vote ……. If the government could solve your problems , everyone would live in California …… the democratic leadership absolutely without question , beyond any doubt want this economy to fail ……. if you don't know that , at some point in your life you will , I assure you I am correct on that...…….




Bill Maher Hopes For Economic Disaster To Get Rid Of Trump


Bill Maher Hopes For Economic Disaster To Get Rid Of Trump













You think I want my entire life to fall apart? Absolutely not. Which brings us to your question about what Bush did wrong? How about tanking the whole economy for one. And I felt that in a bad way just out of university. There was a hiring freeze, my company laid off most of its employees(not me thank god), there was a promotion freeze, there was a raise freeze, there were no bonuses... for years. But, did my student loan payments stop coming in? Nope. Did expenses go down? No, they went up with the soaring price of gas.



you really don't understand that recession...…. you obviously been informed by politicians ... in 2003 bush tried to pass legislation for government oversight of fannie mae and Freddie mac , it was blocked by the democrats on the basis it would deny poor folks who couldn't afford homes the ability to buy a home … ….. do you see the irony in that ?????? deny folks who can't afford a home a loan to buy a home ?????? there are books written on that recession , it goes back to paying for the Vietnam war , and privatizing fannie mae ……….. you'll get it , I invite you to fact check me ?

trump opened up a lot of energy production which lowered gas prices , and aided national security …….. domestic production , which is our only control on gas prices , was crippled by obama policies , they decimated the industry , put most of it out of business , opec jumped right in to help , they knew it was bad for America...….. I believe today the US may be the largest oil producer in the world ………..







Honestly there is so much in your response that I don't have the energy or desire to unpack it all. And I am sure you will feel the same about my response and that's fine and probably better because I have a feeling it is going to be a bit like slamming ones head against a wall, entirely unproductive.

that's ashame folks that know me seem to think i'm a pretty logical person ……. some rich folks have even trusted their money to my logic for decades …….. you should see the stuff my kids got , the only help they got from me was the raising I gave them , the example/ethics I showed them , and the logical thinking they assimilated …if their kids do better than them and I had nothing , that'd be enough for me , and it took this incentivized "system" for it to happen
 

Bailey's Mom

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
I invite all of you to view the funeral service at the National Cathedral. And I urge everyone to contemplate on the strengths and the honour, the decency and humour of the man you lost.

The issues that keep people apart are the very things that McCain railed against...for him there was always room for compromise and for bi-partisan solutions to be found.

WE NEED MORE MEN LIKE HIM.

Yes, he was a hawk in the "speak softly, but carry a big stick" type of hawk. He believed in correcting the evil in the world, first, with diplomacy, then with military might. He believed in the decency of all peoples, not just Americans.

The speeches by both presidents were a true tribute to him. And his daughter's eulogy was a rebuke to some, maybe all for failing to find our own decency and honour.

Folks, don't get lost in the weeds of partisanship. Spend some time trying to understand the other person's path. Try to do it the John McCain way, and, YES, hold your political parties to a John McCain standard. Ask a great deal more of them...demand it. And find it in your hearts to forgive McCain for his many flaws and weaknesses. He readily admitted his faults, owned up to his mistakes, asked for forgiveness when he erred and he gave that forgiveness to anyone, man or woman enough to own up to their own faults and failures.

Don't waste this "moment in time" to be fully American, devoid of party influence, and Honour This Man.

I hope the American people will be blessed with many more honourable, principled men and women in the future.