1 year old mastiff with stiff front legs

[Ska]

Hi there. I am new to this forum and was hoping someone with a bit more experience than i could help. I have a one year old bull/neo mastiff cross who has a bit of trouble with his front legs. He sleeps legs outstretched and once he gets up has very very stiff front legs. Other then that he is fit, happy and healthy. He had undiagnosed lameness when he was about 5 months which came right for a while. He also has lumps on his cheeks that go up and down which are full with leukocytes so not sure if it's related or not. He is not over exercised and does have a play mate at home. I have put him on glucosamine & condroitin, the odd fish oil tablet and msm. I hope to find out more about it myself since the vets I have been to haven't been very helpful. Hope to wait and manage it for 6 months until it can be covered by insurence- provided it isn't urgent. Anyone had a similar experience? Thank you

 

[Sadies Mom]

Welcome!! No experience with the stiffness, but Sadie has lumps on her cheeks too.

 

[Ska]

Welcome!! No experience with the stiffness, but Sadie has lumps on her cheeks too.

Thank you for the welcome and good to know your little one also has the lumps and hasn't caused any trouble! I just find these forums so useful as I had signed up to one for English bulldogs. Here's hoping someone reads this and has some similar experience to share

 

[Sadies Mom]

The lumps used to grow and then get smaller again. They are no longer visual, but you can feel them. They do not seem to bother her one bit.

 

[musicdeb]

Welcome Ska~ I can't offer any advice re: stiff legs. I believe vet check may be in order sooner than 6 months.

 

[Ska]

Welcome Ska~ I can't offer any advice re: stiff legs. I believe vet check may be in order sooner than 6 months.

Thank you. I will post on here what is wrong once I go through the many tests that the vet will no doubt ask us to do. I did not have the best experience going to the vets the first time (two separate vets with no definitive conclusion as to what was wrong after getting x-ray after x-ray after x-ray....) and just wanted to see if anyone else has had a similar experience. If it is uncommon then absolutely we will go back. He is not that uncomfortable and is incredibly happy and is still active at the moment so taking my time to get info. It will be interesting to see if the Glucosamine or Condroitin helps but need to give it a good month before I can note any changes. It is so hard to find a vet that specializes in larger breeds here unless you are referred to a specialist which can take time (and lots of $$$$). So hoping we can manage it until insurance can cover it so he can get the best treatment possible. At the end of the day it is what is best for him so I will update this post when I know but anyone out there that may have gone through something similar it would be interesting to hear. Also this puts it out there for anyone in the future that may go through it. Thank you so much for your comments anything is appreciated!

 

[musicdeb]

Ska, I didn't know you had taken him to the vet twice before. How old is your pup now? You mentioned you got him at 5 months old.

I just saw the subject line, he's a year old. It could be growing pains because mastiffs reach full maturity at about 3.

As long as he's not in pain, I would wait the 6 months for the insurance to kick in.

 

[Sadies Mom]

I give Sadie leg massages everyday. I do not know if it helps but she loves it.

 

[Ska]

Ska, I didn't know you had taken him to the vet twice before. How old is your pup now? You mentioned you got him at 5 months old.

I just saw the subject line, he's a year old. It could be growing pains because mastiffs reach full maturity at about 3.

As long as he's not in pain, I would wait the 6 months for the insurance to kick in.

Thanks! We got him at about 3 months but he had undiagnosed lameness at 5/6 months. Have got X-rays between then and now and nothing obvious - not to say nothing is there. Gave it a rest for 2/3 months and he is just stiff in both his front legs for about 4 months - quite strange it is both not just the one. But thank you for the comments ! Puts the pressure and worry off a bit. He is not in lots of pain as it doesnt seen to bother him too much. but if it worsens its straight to the vet. Will go straight to a specialist too if that happens. Massages are a brilliant idea!! Thanks will start tonight!

 

[DennasMom]

I'd keep up with the Glu/Cho supplements (and maybe one with MSM, too?) and one fish oil capsule with each meal (~human-level dose).
Are you happy with the food you're feeding? If it's growing pains, it could be the food is supporting faster growth than the bones and muscles can keep up with. Just a thought. I'm not a vet by any means, so take it for what it's worth.

These breeds are very good at not showing pain... they just work through it. Wish I could do that.

The massage is a great idea from Sadie's Mom, it certainly can't hurt!

 

[Ska]

I'd keep up with the Glu/Cho supplements (and maybe one with MSM, too?) and one fish oil capsule with each meal (~human-level dose).
Are you happy with the food you're feeding? If it's growing pains, it could be the food is supporting faster growth than the bones and muscles can keep up with. Just a thought. I'm not a vet by any means, so take it for what it's worth.

These breeds are very good at not showing pain... they just work through it. Wish I could do that.

The massage is a great idea from Sadie's Mom, it certainly can't hurt!

Great advice!! Thank you! To be honest he has had a few changes in his foods.
Unfortunately in New Zealand we don’t have great stuff here in the lines of dog
food. He was on Eukanuba large breed when he was a pup, then ARCANA large breed
puppy, and now Proplan large breed (giant is no longer available and there are
no other foods available for giant breeds except for Royal Canan which I am not
a fan of (wheat etc)- crazy huh?) I work in a major chain pet store here part
time while im studying so am always keeping an eye out for good food. We also
have a complete raw diet available but I dont know if that would be the best
for a giant breed pup? I have an English bulldog (stooge) who has food
allergies so I have tried a few and orijen and arcana is amazing for her. But
for Ska my bullmastiff - how do you know what will promote growth in the
foods?? Is it protein or carbs or something else? Arcana was really good but has higher protein
then the other foods he has been on so not sure if that is good or bad at this stage. He only
gets 2 cups morning and night so he is not over fed. He is a slender, lanky,
narrow boy, is looking great and is not underweight - and definitely not over
making sure he doesn’t have a lot of weight on his legs. So any suggestions for
slowing down growth would be much appreciated!

 

[Smart_Family]

I would go to the Acana Pacifica if I were you or the raw. Neither protein or carbs are the reason for growth. It's the calcium and ratio of calcium to phosphorus. The Acana Pacfica is perfectly balanced for a growing mastiff pup.

 

[Ska]

I just saw the subject line, he's a year old. It could be growing pains because mastiffs reach full maturity at about 3.

Also would you recomend feeding him puppy food till he is 3 instead of 2 years old if he will not be fully developed until 3? Thanks

 

[DMikeM]

Has he been fixed (neutered) if yes at what age? And RAW would be the best way to go.

 

[Ska]

I would go to the Acana Pacifica if I were you or the raw. Neither protein or carbs are the reason for growth. It's the calcium and ratio of calcium to phosphorus. The Acana Pacfica is perfectly balanced for a growing mastiff pup.

Excellent!! Thank you! Will put him on that and see if it helps. Much appreciated.

Has he been fixed (neutered) if yes at what age? And RAW would be the best way to go.

And I know RAW is amazing! There is just no evidence or tests for good puppy development
with the one we sell. But I am saving up for another freezer and will
definitely put that into his diet as well when I have the room. He was neutered
as soon as he was old enough to do so. I forget how old exactly but he was
still young. Definitely do not regret doing it straight away behavioral-wise.

 

[Ska]

Doubled up and couldnt delete post so here is another picture

 

[DMikeM]

There are bone and growth related problems associated with early spay or neuter of large breed dogs (actually all dog breeds) He may have a bad case of Pano (puppy growing pains). You said he had lamness earlier, Pano is described as lamness in one or more legs during growth stages. If he was neutered early then the Pano may still be present because the growth plates are not closing down as they normally would with an intact male animal. BTW neutering dogs does not change behavior.
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/is...ks-benefits-spay-neuter-your-dog_20685-1.html

 

[Ska]

There are bone and growth related problems associated with early spay or neuter of large breed dogs (actually all dog breeds) He may have a bad case of Pano (puppy growing pains). You said he had lamness earlier, Pano is described as lamness in one or more legs during growth stages. If he was neutered early then the Pano may still be present because the growth plates are not closing down as they normally would with an intact male animal. BTW neutering dogs does not change behavior.
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/is...ks-benefits-spay-neuter-your-dog_20685-1.html

Ok thanks for that.
It is interesting as I could not find many scientific papers on the effects on behavior of animals after neutering... I would probably prefer to see a more thorough investigation and papers themselves as there are many journals out there that publish bias information and experiments/statistics - including scientific journals themselves. But the lowered testosterone levels must affect them on some level one would think since it is a hormone... I must ask my Animal Science Lecturer and see if any good scientific studies prop up. I will definitely have a good read about Pano, neutering and thank you for bringing it to my attention. It is common here to neuter early and many vets here do recommend it saying there is no great health risks - not to say there is not but that was what I got from 7 vets when I asked (i ask a lot of questions) I remember that in the early xrays "one had fused together nicely" and the other was close... but i dont know how often the growth plates would open and close...

---------- Post added at 04:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

Ok so apparently scientists have done studies regarding the relationship between testosterone levels and aggression but I can only find a few with my resources atm. A quick look finds that "Results overwhelmingly indicate that testosterone and aggression are related (Angela S. Book, 2001)" "Individual correlational studies demonstrate this relationship in a wide range of birds (Harding, 1983) and many species of mammals, including rats, monkeys, hamsters, dogs, and deer (Rada, Kellner, & Winslow, 1976).(Angela S. Book, 2001)" Testosterone may also be used in erectile function (smooth muscle contractile pathways) - have not seen my bullmastiff boy get aroused ever - and I have a female dog... This may suggest a less aggressive dog and less sexually active =changes in behaviour. But I would have to do more reading to be fully swayed and find what papers have specifically completed studies on dogs. All of this information was taken from scientific papers including experimental information etc... and thought someone apart from myself might find this interesting...

 

[Ska]

But after quickly reading about the effects of testosterone on bone development there may be some relation to bone diseases/deformities like growth plates not fusing, pavo or dysplasia... maybe. Interested to know what others think.
more reading http://www.hindawi.com/journals/josteo/2011/240328/ - is human studies but we are animals too

 

[Ska]

grrr where is the delete post on this thing?