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E collars

Elizabeth Balcomb

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone. I have recently started researching e collars on the net. Lupo at 2 years old has just started lunging aggressively at other dogs, and even at his dog friends. I am always ready for it at this stage and keep him on a lead and jerk him back and reprimand him when he does it, give him a bit of time, and he moves into tolerating his dog friend and then into playing and back to his old friendly way. This is with dogs that aren't part of the household, but he knows them, and they are his play mates. This weekend we went to visit my parents, he did the same thing, and for 5 days they got on extremely well except for 1 food guarding incident. At first I thought perhaps he is moving into his adulthood , he is intact, and he wants to be the main ou.. but i also noticed him licking the lips of my parents neutered male regularly. Which I see as submissive? I'm not entirely bought into the alpha thing, but do still consider it sometimes. I have to give him a lot if space from strange dogs we encounter on walks, he is very charged. Because of lockdown I haven't been able to take him to our usual training sessions. My feeling is that once we start going back that we will get over this. In my searches on the net I came across the e collar. I'm sure like everything it needs to be used correctly,. I was wondering whether anyone here has experience with one? I am interested in the fact that it could distract him from say for example, barking madly at a stranger and to come to me if he is off lead, if i train him that that's what I want from him when he feels the vibration? If I train that I want the "eyes" command when he feels the vibration? I've also read that it can help with anxiety if used correctly, by teaching the dog to focus on you when his anxiety is triggered, and in so doing to tolerate that which is anxiety causing, and eventually through experience to learn that that thing isn't actually so scary..
I would greatly appreciate if if anyone here has experience with the collar could share tbeirexperi, and thank you for your time.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
I actually do have experience with this. I'm a crossover trainer, so it's not that I haven't tried aversive methods. I have and I think there are better ways. I'm strongly against the use of an e collar for any type of aggression or anxiety issues. I'd like to see the articles you've read that say it would be good for anxiety.

Are you thinking to use it on the vibrate only, or would you be considering using some level of a shock? I have opinions, lol.

Here's one position statement from the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior. I can get more. I can also see if my daughter, who is a KPA certified trainer/Fear Free Elite/RVT/behavior intern, can answer questions for you. She has a lot of experience working with the kind of issues you're describing. She's on a well deserved vacation right now and isn't checking her messages.

https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Punishment_Position_Statement-download_-_10-6-14.pdf
 

Loverboy Skyline

Well-Known Member
My experience with e-collars was not great. I was training my American Bulldog in Schutzhund. Our club's trainer took his GSD to nationals and used e-collars. He used a Tritronics collar, which is one of the most powerful collars out there. We used that successfully on my AB to get him to sit straight (Schutzhund is about precision, so doing the exercise is not good enough, they have to do it precisely). However, we also tried to use it fix his dog aggression because that was important for the trial also. Even though he was great with people he had dog aggression issues, and he was aggressive towards rotties for some reason, so we would walk a rottie by him and when he made a move we would zap him. A couple months later I took a vacation and boarded him at a facility. They opened the door to clean his cage while someone else walked in with a 120 pound rottie. My AB bolted out the door and attacked the rottie who had to get 26 stitches on his head. I think he associated the rottie with a very unpleasant experience. So that part of the training didn't work out so well.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
My experience with e-collars was not great. I was training my American Bulldog in Schutzhund. Our club's trainer took his GSD to nationals and used e-collars. He used a Tritronics collar, which is one of the most powerful collars out there. We used that successfully on my AB to get him to sit straight (Schutzhund is about precision, so doing the exercise is not good enough, they have to do it precisely). However, we also tried to use it fix his dog aggression because that was important for the trial also. Even though he was great with people he had dog aggression issues, and he was aggressive towards rotties for some reason, so we would walk a rottie by him and when he made a move we would zap him. A couple months later I took a vacation and boarded him at a facility. They opened the door to clean his cage while someone else walked in with a 120 pound rottie. My AB bolted out the door and attacked the rottie who had to get 26 stitches on his head. I think he associated the rottie with a very unpleasant experience. So that part of the training didn't work out so well.

I'm sorry that happened to you. Exactly what you describe happening is one of the unintended consequences. You want them to make good associations to change the way they think, not just suppress a behavior. You want the trigger to predict really great things happening, not painful things. It makes sense.
 

Elizabeth Balcomb

Well-Known Member
I actually do have experience with this. I'm a crossover trainer, so it's not that I haven't tried aversive methods. I have and I think there are better ways. I'm strongly against the use of an e collar for any type of aggression or anxiety issues. I'd like to see the articles you've read that say it would be good for anxiety.

Are you thinking to use it on the vibrate only, or would you be considering using some level of a shock? I have opinions, lol.

Here's one position statement from the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior. I can get more. I can also see if my daughter, who is a KPA certified trainer/Fear Free Elite/RVT/behavior intern, can answer questions for you. She has a lot of experience working with the kind of issues you're describing. She's on a well deserved vacation right now and isn't checking her messages.

https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Punishment_Position_Statement-download_-_10-6-14.pdf
Thank you Boxergirl.. I wouldn't even consider the shock version. I was under the impression that it was only vibrate. I'll make a link to one you tube video, where he uses a very low vibrate as a command to look in his eyes, he uses food to distract the dog, presses the button, dog looks in his eyes and then gets a food reward for that behavior. I must say, as I started looking more at his videos, my feeling was that he gives an impression that it is a majic button, you press it for any behavior you want. This rang alarm bells for me.. the net is flooded with "experts" !!
I was contacted today by my club, we starting again on Saturday, and I'm going to sign up with another group for nosework. Run by a behaviorist. I think with careful exposure he will get over this.
I've never seen an e collar in SA, I wonder if anyone here uses them. But thank you for your insight, I'm certainly not planning on rushing off to buy one..
 

Elizabeth Balcomb

Well-Known Member
My experience with e-collars was not great. I was training my American Bulldog in Schutzhund. Our club's trainer took his GSD to nationals and used e-collars. He used a Tritronics collar, which is one of the most powerful collars out there. We used that successfully on my AB to get him to sit straight (Schutzhund is about precision, so doing the exercise is not good enough, they have to do it precisely). However, we also tried to use it fix his dog aggression because that was important for the trial also. Even though he was great with people he had dog aggression issues, and he was aggressive towards rotties for some reason, so we would walk a rottie by him and when he made a move we would zap him. A couple months later I took a vacation and boarded him at a facility. They opened the door to clean his cage while someone else walked in with a 120 pound rottie. My AB bolted out the door and attacked the rottie who had to get 26 stitches on his head. I think he associated the rottie with a very unpleasant experience. So that part of the training didn't work out so well.
Oh gosh. That must have been awful. I'm so sorry. Thank you for sharing your experience. If one were to try using it to calm territorial rushing behavior it could end in total disaster!
 

Elizabeth Balcomb

Well-Known Member
I actually do have experience with this. I'm a crossover trainer, so it's not that I haven't tried aversive methods. I have and I think there are better ways. I'm strongly against the use of an e collar for any type of aggression or anxiety issues. I'd like to see the articles you've read that say it would be good for anxiety.

Are you thinking to use it on the vibrate only, or would you be considering using some level of a shock? I have opinions, lol.

Here's one position statement from the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior. I can get more. I can also see if my daughter, who is a KPA certified trainer/Fear Free Elite/RVT/behavior intern, can answer questions for you. She has a lot of experience working with the kind of issues you're describing. She's on a well deserved vacation right now and isn't checking her messages.

https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Punishment_Position_Statement-download_-_10-6-14.pdf
https://www.google.com/search?clien...yLjWYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#
 

Loverboy Skyline

Well-Known Member
Oh gosh. That must have been awful. I'm so sorry. Thank you for sharing your experience. If one were to try using it to calm territorial rushing behavior it could end in total disaster!
Just wanted to point out I was using a Tritronics collar. It's a real electric shock collar that was popular for guys training in Schutzhund, and they typically have very hard dogs. I see you only want a mild vibration, so we are talking night and day difference as far as level of correction.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Elizabeth, I haven't watched the video yet but I will. I suspected, given your other posts, that you didn't want the shock option. I did use the vibrate only option for my boy with severe generalized anxiety and I know that vibration collars are often used with deaf dogs. Some dogs are even too anxious for the vibrate. My boy was and it set me back some. I think there are plenty of other ways to achieve your goal without using a collar. Personally, I'd use a clicker. It's all about helping your dog make good choices and rewarding them. There are lots and lots of resources for what you're trying to do.
 

Elizabeth Balcomb

Well-Known Member
Elizabeth, I haven't watched the video yet but I will. I suspected, given your other posts, that you didn't want the shock option. I did use the vibrate only option for my boy with severe generalized anxiety and I know that vibration collars are often used with deaf dogs. Some dogs are even too anxious for the vibrate. My boy was and it set me back some. I think there are plenty of other ways to achieve your goal without using a collar. Personally, I'd use a clicker. It's all about helping your dog make good choices and rewarding them. There are lots and lots of resources for what you're trying to do.
Great.. thank you.. I'm using the word Yes to mark behavior, Good to hold the behavior.. in your experience is the sound of a clicker more effective? I did start out with one, but having a clicker , treats, lead, it all gets a bit much, and I seem to lose clickers like crazy...

Lupo has just started this aggro dominant thing with his friends..yes, I really need to come up with a technique that is better than having him on a lead and waiting for the rumble. I have a squeaky toy that he is mad for that I save for when I really want his attention. I guess a good plan would be to set up a meet with one of his buddies and do the distract and treat at correct distance, slowly getting closer. He isn't toy aggressive..
But thanks so much for your time..
 

Elizabeth Balcomb

Well-Known Member
Great.. thank you.. I'm using the word Yes to mark behavior, Good to hold the behavior.. in your experience is the sound of a clicker more effective? I did start out with one, but having a clicker , treats, lead, it all gets a bit much, and I seem to lose clickers like crazy...

Lupo has just started this aggro dominant thing with his friends..yes, I really need to come up with a technique that is better than having him on a lead and waiting for the rumble. I have a squeaky toy that he is mad for that I save for when I really want his attention. I guess a good plan would be to set up a meet with one of his buddies and do the distract and treat at correct distance, slowly getting closer. He isn't toy aggressive..
But thanks so much for your time..
Last comment. @Boxergirl I have just been sent a book on using clickers with aggressive behavior, don't worry about commenting on the above! I have answers to those questions, its going to be a process, but luckily at this stage it isn't too severe and I'm hoping I've caught it early .
 

Sheila Braund

Well-Known Member
Hi guys I would like to chime in on this... I don’t have the time to read the full thread right now so if this is a repeat sorry.....
My girl Bella has terrible fear aggression. ive recently bought the Educator e collar....
Here is my review on it....

I have a 140lb English Mastiff, with fear aggression. I’ve been watching training videos and so far I’ve only been using the “tap” Which has worked wonderful! This is the 2nd remote collar I have used. So instead of shocking her with the collar I’ve been using the tap to break her focus on unwanted behaviour. This allows me to redirect her to focus on me. Then I praise her for the focus on me....Great training tool!