Julius K9 front control belt

[William Smith]

Hi everyone.

Just wondering what peoples thoughts on front control harnesses are. As our pup is growing bigger and bigger he's just getting stronger, and he's only 5 months old now. We don't struggle to hold him back, but occasionally he does catch us off guard when in the park and gives us a good tug.

I've been looking into how to teach your dog how to stop pulling so much, and I've read that front control harnesses are good for this as they redirect the dog to the side instead of just holding them back. Currently our pup has a size 0 Julius K-9 IDC Powerharness, and we've seen that there is a front control belt attachment that can be purchased.

https://julius-k9.co.uk/front-control-belt-with-ring-for-powerharness-size-0.html

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this? Is it worth the purchase, or is there a better way to get Opie to stop pulling so much?

Thank you.

 

[Pastor Dave]

We bought a "Herman Sprang" (that might be the incorrect spelling) collar at Tractor Supply as well as bags of "For Health" kibble. The collar works well for us, but our mastiff still needs the reminder not to walk too far ahead. I pray that this works out for you and your dog. For us, the shoulder harness thing never worked to stop the pulling.

 

[TylerDurden]

I‘m not familiar with this particular model, but we have recently inteoduced a harness where the leash can be attached in the front. I have always been very sceptical, but after using it for a couple of days, I must admit that it really helps on walks. Our EM has never been a strong puller, but it helps to keep him close and to slow him down. When there is no or limited distraction, it does not even require any corrections at all. However, that‘s probably due to extensive lose leash training, rather than a particular collar or harness. I‘d say give it a try especially for the relatively low price.

 

[Boxergirl]

I also am not familiar with this brand for a front hook, but I am a front hook user. I would start working heavily on impulse control, focus work, and choosing to heel in low distraction areas. I prefer to work on heeling without a leash or on a long line. I am not against the proper use of a prong, but I don't think it's necessarily the first thing to try. Or, if you do want to use one, make sure you get a Herm Sprenger and know how to fit and use it properly. And use it in conjunction with training. I think far too many people just stick the prong on and let it do the work for them and to me, that's lazy. I don't want a collar smart dog that only behaves when using a certain tool. That goes for front hook harnesses too. You have to put in the training.

My choices for front hook harness are: Balance Harness. Perfect Fit Harness. Freedom Harness. Ruffwear Front Range. I don't care for the ones that pinch the front shoulders together because it can mess with their front end movement. That's no good. The above harnesses won't work as well as the ones that pinch, which is why the impulse control/focus/choose to heel exercises are so important.

 

[William Smith]

Are you guys serious about the Herm Sprenger? I hadn't heard of it before, so I just googled it.. it looks absolutely horrible! There's not a chance in hell I would ever put that thing on my dog...

 

[Boxergirl]

Prongs are a pretty popular tool with a lot of people. I don't care for them myself, but when fitted and used properly they don't have to be overly painful. They are uncomfortable. Herm Sprenger is the only brand to buy if you're going to use one. Do a search for a recent thread on prongs. I know there was one from another member that was deciding whether to try one.

 

[William Smith]

I'm sorry, but I'm of the opinion that I wouldn't do anything to my dog that I wouldn't do to myself, or accept it being done to me. If you aren't willing to have metal prongs driven into your own neck then why would it be okay to do that to a dog? Toddler harnesses don't come with built in spikes in case they wander too far and pull, so why is it okay to do it to an innocent dog who's probably just inquisitive? Granted, dogs are stronger and could potentially pull so hard you lose your grip on them, but it's still barbaric.

"they don't have to be overly painful" ? Nobody should be causing their dog any kind of pain. I'll admit that I've only done a little bit of research on these since hearing of them, but from what I've seen and read so far I'd consider it animal cruelty. Pulling is a bad habit that I'm sure with enough training and positive reinforcement I can break. If i ever get to a point where i need to use what looks like nothing short of a torture device on my dog to get him to do what i want then as far as I'm concerned I would have failed at training, failed as a dog owner, and at that point the dog should be re-homed to somebody more capable of handling him.

I'm sorry that I'm coming across angry. I am angry, but not at you. I just can't believe that something like that is an accepted training tool.. It's horrific.

 

[Boxergirl]

I'm sorry, but I'm of the opinion that I wouldn't do anything to my dog that I wouldn't do to myself, or accept it being done to me. If you aren't willing to have metal prongs driven into your own neck then why would it be okay to do that to a dog? Toddler harnesses don't come with built in spikes in case they wander too far and pull, so why is it okay to do it to an innocent dog who's probably just inquisitive? Granted, dogs are stronger and could potentially pull so hard you lose your grip on them, but it's still barbaric.

"they don't have to be overly painful" ? Nobody should be causing their dog any kind of pain. I'll admit that I've only done a little bit of research on these since hearing of them, but from what I've seen and read so far I'd consider it animal cruelty. Pulling is a bad habit that I'm sure with enough training and positive reinforcement I can break. If i ever get to a point where i need to use what looks like nothing short of a torture device on my dog to get him to do what i want then as far as I'm concerned I would have failed at training, failed as a dog owner, and at that point the dog should be re-homed to somebody more capable of handling him.

I'm sorry that I'm coming across angry. I am angry, but not at you. I just can't believe that something like that is an accepted training tool.. It's horrific.

It's okay. I understand. I don't use a prong, nor do I recommend them. I do try to educate those that choose to use them on how to use them properly. They are actually against the law in many areas.

So, with that being said. Have you taken a look at any of the harnesses suggested? You might also take a look at the Sporn harness. It's not totally aversive, as the front hooks that pinch the shoulders aren't, but it works pretty well for some dogs and it's available almost everywhere.

 

[Justin B.]

I'm sorry, but I'm of the opinion that I wouldn't do anything to my dog that I wouldn't do to myself, or accept it being done to me. If you aren't willing to have metal prongs driven into your own neck then why would it be okay to do that to a dog? Toddler harnesses don't come with built in spikes in case they wander too far and pull, so why is it okay to do it to an innocent dog who's probably just inquisitive? Granted, dogs are stronger and could potentially pull so hard you lose your grip on them, but it's still barbaric.

"they don't have to be overly painful" ? Nobody should be causing their dog any kind of pain. I'll admit that I've only done a little bit of research on these since hearing of them, but from what I've seen and read so far I'd consider it animal cruelty. Pulling is a bad habit that I'm sure with enough training and positive reinforcement I can break. If i ever get to a point where i need to use what looks like nothing short of a torture device on my dog to get him to do what i want then as far as I'm concerned I would have failed at training, failed as a dog owner, and at that point the dog should be re-homed to somebody more capable of handling him.

I'm sorry that I'm coming across angry. I am angry, but not at you. I just can't believe that something like that is an accepted training tool.. It's horrific.

There are giant dogs with a ton of a thing called DRIVE. These dogs can easily break normal leads and tools. They can become uncontrollable to a handler. Some of these same dogs have aggressive tendencies as well.

If you have not owned and handled dozens and dozens of these types of dogs one wouldn't understand it at all. Adopting a temperament tested dog is not the same as this. Buying a low energy or low drive type of dog is not the same as this. Having an overly socialized dog is not the same as this. And buying a purebred dog that is far removed from any true working lines is not the same as this as well.

Instead of gambling with their dog's life and the safety of other people and pets these owner handlers and trainers opt to use a device that gives them better control and correction of the dog.

I don't know of any toddlers or children with knives and vice like crushing power for a mouth and pocket knives for finger nails. With wild instincts and breed specific traits and drives that can be triggered in a split second. So it's a lot different

 

[Nik]

I am a fan of Freedom harness. I have also heard that bungie leashes work well for discouraging pulling. I have not, however, tried a bungie leash so I can't speak to that.

 

[CeeCee]

Are you guys serious about the Herm Sprenger? I hadn't heard of it before, so I just googled it.. it looks absolutely horrible! There's not a chance in hell I would ever put that thing on my dog...

I think your response said it all. A prong collar "LOOKS" horrible, but like anything in life, looks can be deceiving.

Having said that, no matter what the tool, never use a tool that you are not comfortable using or have not been trained on how to properly use by an experienced professional (pet store sales people don't count).

One of the beauties of a prong collar is that is allows you to work and train your dogs with OUNCES of pressure. All harness and collars use pressure to communicate. Fancy Footwork or Silky Leash teach that when the dog puts pressure/tension on the collar/leash/harness all forward movement stops. When the dog releases the pressure, the forward movement continues. Depending on their motivation/excitement, many dogs will put pounds of pressure on their, neck, back, and throat to get to where they want to go - a prong collar delivers such clear communication that many dogs only need the ounce of pressure (not pounds) to release the tension.

I found that they key for my dogs and I is for me to use my feet (not my arms) to move the dog with me i.e., not delivering leash correction. (It took me years to really get this.)

Having said all of that. I'm not a fan of harnesses as (1) in my experience they do not allow me to communicate clearly with my dog (The message of pressure is muddled.) and (2) they can slip off their shoulders if not fit properly and the fit is not checked frequently. The bulk of my experience is with the EZ Walk.

I'm becoming more familiar and comfortable with head Halti and I'm becoming more of a fan. It's information is somewhere between a flat collar and prong. Although I will say that when my boy was an adolescent, I was using the Halti. He became reactive on leash and because I had control of is head, when he reacted, his body went one way and his head stayed with me causing his neck to wrench. That was 5 years ago and I can still hear his help of pain in my head. I would say be super aware of their growing bodies and how much leash you dogs has to move in case they react.

Finally, I have started using the Ezy Dog flat collar (basically it is a modified Martingale) and this I am becoming a bigger fan. Its level of information is somewhere between a Halti and a Prong.

Whatever tool you use, let your dog tell you what level of information/control they need for where they are at in their development and learning. Whatever tool you use, it should NEVER be creating pain and or fear - in either the dog or the person.

Some of the trainers you might want to check out are Tyler Muto, Blake Rodriquez, and Heather Beck, and Stonnie Dennis.

 

[CeeCee]

I'm sorry, but I'm of the opinion that I wouldn't do anything to my dog that I wouldn't do to myself, or accept it being done to me. If you aren't willing to have metal prongs driven into your own neck then why would it be okay to do that to a dog? Toddler harnesses don't come with built in spikes in case they wander too far and pull, so why is it okay to do it to an innocent dog who's probably just inquisitive? Granted, dogs are stronger and could potentially pull so hard you lose your grip on them, but it's still barbaric.

"they don't have to be overly painful" ? Nobody should be causing their dog any kind of pain. I'll admit that I've only done a little bit of research on these since hearing of them, but from what I've seen and read so far I'd consider it animal cruelty. Pulling is a bad habit that I'm sure with enough training and positive reinforcement I can break. If i ever get to a point where i need to use what looks like nothing short of a torture device on my dog to get him to do what i want then as far as I'm concerned I would have failed at training, failed as a dog owner, and at that point the dog should be re-homed to somebody more capable of handling him.

I'm sorry that I'm coming across angry. I am angry, but not at you. I just can't believe that something like that is an accepted training tool.. It's horrific.

Don't be angry. There is A LOT of misleading information out there and a lot of inexperienced trainers out there using tools that they either should not be using or do not know how to properly use. A prong collar is NOT a spiked collar - the end of the tines are rounded. (The difference is like a fork and a spoon.)

For years, I heard all the crazy and accusations about the prong collar then finally decided to put one on myself (on my neck) and I even snapped it multiple times at varying strengths...then I really felt like a fool. For ME, it was not at all painful. It was what I can only describe as a unique sensation, but since I am not the one wearing it, my opinion doesn't really count. So I put it on my dog, used some Fancy Footwork leash walking and WOW! If I were to rate the amount of work/pressure/and back and forth communications we were both doing to communicate with one another on a scale of 1 to 10. (10 being trying to solve a complex math problem with a language barrier and 1 being shooting the breeze with my oldest, best friend) Communication with the harness was about a 7, the flat collar was a 5, and the prong collar was a 2.

My only point in saying any of this is that there is A LOT of misleading and inaccurate information out there in the dog world - especially around training and tools. It takes a fair amount of digging to find accurate information. Be persistent. Ask questions and know your sources.

 

[April Nicole]

Prong collars pinch the back of the neck the same way a mother dog does to give a puppy a correction. Dogs mouth each other all the time. We are the pack leaders, and it is OK to give your dog a correction. When used correctly and only for training, the prong collar is an excellent tool. And I agree with Boxer girl, I would only use the Sprenger prong.

 

[Boxergirl]

It's also okay to choose not to use any particular tool. It's also okay to change your mind down the road if you want. There are a lot of resources for teaching loose leash walking that don't require a prong. Take a look at the choose to heel method.

FWIW, I did try a prong on myself. The corrections I gave myself weren't painful, just uncomfortable. Perhaps because I was expecting them or didn't use as much force. The corrections my husband gave me, when I wasn't prepared for them, hurt. Quite a lot. Just my experience. I will say that a choke chain hurt much more and left me with a ring of bruising around my leg. There are some dogs that they may be appropriate for and some dogs that they definitely aren't. You should use what you and your dog is comfortable with.

 

[marke]

i've used those front control hatnesses on the weimaraners , those dogs were as big as , stubborn as , and crazier than anything i've ever had , the front hooked harness worked on them ......

 

[Boxergirl]

William Smith - I don't know if you'd be at all interested, but the Denise Fenzi Academy is having a class on loose leash walking. Registration is open. I take a lot of her courses and think they're great. There are three levels, the bronze starts at $65. Just thought I'd put it out there. The instructor uses positive methods and tools.

https://fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/courses/11630

 

[kingmark]

I also am not familiar with this brand for a front hook, but I am a front hook user. I would start working heavily on impulse control, focus work, and choosing to heel in low distraction areas. I prefer to work on heeling without a leash or on a long line. I am not against the proper use of a prong, but I don't think it's necessarily the first thing to try. Or, if you do want to use one, make sure you get a Herm Sprenger and know how to fit and use it properly. And use it in conjunction with training. I think far too many people just stick the prong on and let it do the work for them and to me, that's lazy. I don't want a collar smart dog that only behaves when using a certain tool. That goes for front hook harnesses too. You have to put in the training.

My choices for front hook harness are: Balance Harness. Perfect Fit Harness. Freedom Harness. Ruffwear Front Range. I don't care for the ones that pinch the front shoulders together because it can mess with their front end movement. That's no good. The above harnesses won't work as well as the ones that pinch, which is why the impulse control/focus/choose to heel exercises are so important.

Hey i have a question, do you have ruffwear front range harness for your dog? I bought one for tonka and its ok but i am worrying that she dont brake it when she see another dog? Experiences anyone?

 

[Boxergirl]

Kingmark, I have one for each of my dogs. Are you using the front hook or the back hook on it? I don't think the front hook is particularly strong. I double leash my big girl. A waist leash for the back hook and a regular leash for the front hook.

 

[kingmark]

Kingmark, I have one for each of my dogs. Are you using the front hook or the back hook on it? I don't think the front hook is particularly strong. I double leash my big girl. A waist leash for the back hook and a regular leash for the front hook.

You have them for each dog wow then you must be satisfied with that model that makes me a little bit more sure about its strength. I am hooking at the back that one in front looks weaker then that in the back as you said also. my concer are those side ways with plastic like clips or something like that all in all its ok and tonka looks comfourtable wearing it. I have to ask which colours you have? Tonkas is some type of grey/brown i think

 

[Boxergirl]

I have a teal and a grey for my boxer boys and Ella, my big girl, has pink. I like them. None of my dogs are pullers though, so they don't get a lot of stress put on them.