Ear Cropping

[Boxergirl]

I feel the need to say that not all those who disagree with the use of choke chains, prongs, and e-collars are PETA supporters. That's much too broad of a statement. But this is a discussion for another thread.

I do thank you for the link. I have seen that one before. It's still not quite enough to qualify cropping as a preventive measure or a medical necessity in the majority of dogs. For me. I fully support the right to crop as long as it's legal in your (generic) country.

 

[Justin B.]

I feel the need to say that not all those who disagree with the use of choke chains, prongs, and e-collars are PETA supporters. That's much too broad of a statement. But this is a discussion for another thread.

I do thank you for the link. I have seen that one before. It's still not quite enough to qualify cropping as a preventive measure or a medical necessity in the majority of dogs. For me. I fully support the right to crop as long as it's legal in your (generic) country.

Sure, I dont mean all. I am talking about the overlap and the shared ideology from those people and orgs. Im just using it as a baseline to determine how knowledgeable and how objective a person is when dealing with real world working dogs from working lines. That is a much different ownership and breeding experience from the normal household pet. And should be looked at differently and considered.

A medical necessity and a preventive measure are 2 very different things.
My opinion is I 100% agree its not a medical necessity. Far too rare. And even when it does happen most of the time it can be treated fast and easy.

However, after not just reading the article but looking at the studies I feel it can potentially be preventive based on the real #s provided.
Have you seen the cited studies or just the link?????

Also, im not going to be disingenuous and say that its the main reason to crop ears. I just think its important to not dismiss the info.
Maybe there can be better more modern studies done.

 

[Nik]

Justin B - You lost a dog to ear issues? I had a ton of ear issues with my standard poodle because of the hair in the ears issue but nothing that was ever life threatening. I just ended up having to learn early on how to pluck his ears myself and clean them out. And even with consistently doing that he still ended up with so much moisture trapped in there that it was a constant battle.

As for the prong/choke etc collars. I don't like them but not for the usual reasons. We learned early on (again with our standard poodle) that these types of collars are too heavy and can cause back issues in the dogs. We now only use the lightest weight collars we can find and for walking always a harness. We did chiropractory with our standard when his back issues became severe (btw the chiropractor we found was a miracle worker and took him from not walking to running like a puppy). That chiropractor gave us a long lecture regarding any sort of metal collar and how bad they are for the structure of a dog. He also convinced us we should always and only use harnesses on walks. I trust his opinion completely after how much he helped our Cerberus.

 

[Justin B.]

Justin B - You lost a dog to ear issues? I had a ton of ear issues with my standard poodle because of the hair in the ears issue but nothing that was ever life threatening. I just ended up having to learn early on how to pluck his ears myself and clean them out. And even with consistently doing that he still ended up with so much moisture trapped in there that it was a constant battle.

As for the prong/choke etc collars. I don't like them but not for the usual reasons. We learned early on (again with our standard poodle) that these types of collars are too heavy and can cause back issues in the dogs. We now only use the lightest weight collars we can find and for walking always a harness. We did chiropractory with our standard when his back issues became severe (btw the chiropractor we found was a miracle worker and took him from not walking to running like a puppy). That chiropractor gave us a long lecture regarding any sort of metal collar and how bad they are for the structure of a dog. He also convinced us we should always and only use harnesses on walks. I trust his opinion completely after how much he helped our Cerberus.

Yes unfortunately I did. It was determined to be more of an environmental factor by the Vet. The dog really enjoyed swimming in my neighbors pond. We probably should of checked and cleaned out his ears better. Or not let him in that kind of water. Sad learning experience.

Prong and Choke chains are not to be used as normal collars. If used correctly...
-They should never be on a dog that is not on a lead, being trained, or under direct super vision of the owner.
They are NOT meant to be left on dogs for any extended amount of time or as a normal collar. For safety and strangulation concerns. I never considered back or other orthopedic issues though.

Even though some people know this. Its just a bad habbit a lot of people dont think about. I see it all the time.

- I think the rules for what is too heavy to a 100 - 160 lb working Mastiff will vary from that of a Standard Poodle. I like to look at info a little bit more breed and type specific on that.

- I have never had any back issues or structural issues with the generations of Rotts and Cane Corsos I have had.
I didn't use prong collars on my Rottys though. Just normal chokers.

-Harnesses are cool and have their place. If I am trying to socialize or correct an aggression or behavior issue in a dog the harness will definitely give a less experienced handler control. However, it lacks the correction. The behavior can continue. My ultimate goal would be to fix the behavior in general not to just control it.

Good info though. Definitely something to consider, check for or mention to somebody if they are having similar problems.
Never thought of it like that.
I dont think they are best for certain dogs or that they should be used for every breed though. I think they have a legit place though.

 

[Nik]

Yes unfortunately I did. It was determined to be more of an environmental factor by the Vet. The dog really enjoyed swimming in my neighbors pond. We probably should of checked and cleaned out his ears better. Or not let him in that kind of water. Sad learning experience.

Prong and Choke chains are not to be used as normal collars. If used correctly...
-They should never be on a dog that is not on a lead, being trained, or under direct super vision of the owner.
They are NOT meant to be left on dogs for any extended amount of time or as a normal collar. For safety and strangulation concerns. I never considered back or other orthopedic issues though.

Even though some people know this. Its just a bad habbit a lot of people dont think about. I see it all the time.

- I think the rules for what is too heavy to a 100 - 160 lb working Mastiff will vary from that of a Standard Poodle. I like to look at info a little bit more breed and type specific on that.

- I have never had any back issues or structural issues with the generations of Rotts and Cane Corsos I have had.
I didn't use prong collars on my Rottys though. Just normal chokers.

-Harnesses are cool and have their place. If I am trying to socialize or correct an aggression or behavior issue in a dog the harness will definitely give a less experienced handler control. However, it lacks the correction. The behavior can continue. My ultimate goal would be to fix the behavior in general not to just control it.

Good info though. Definitely something to consider, check for or mention to somebody if they are having similar problems.
Never thought of it like that.
I dont think they are best for certain dogs or that they should be used for every breed though. I think they have a legit place though.

I am so sorry to hear about your dog. It always so hard to lose them.

You are completely right that the choke and prong collars shouldn't be left on dogs all the time but even regular walk use can cause issues with some dogs. I also think that Cerberus (our standard poodle) structure was far more delicate than that of either of our mastiff mixes. That said he was a big standard poodle and my two mastiff mixes are extremely small for their breeds. Both are smaller than our standard poodle was though more sturdily built. Even so after having seen the pain Cerberus went through before we corrected the issues I err on the side of reducing anything that could contribute to any back or structural issues. The harnesses we use do allow for correction if used correctly. We use Freedom Harness and we use the front connector for the leash. I have found it to be very effective and recommend it to everyone who asks me for recommendations. I don't recommend EZ Harness which I found to be a lot less effective. Not all harnesses are equal in my experience.

 

[Steven C]

Justin B - You lost a dog to ear issues? I had a ton of ear issues with my standard poodle because of the hair in the ears issue but nothing that was ever life threatening. I just ended up having to learn early on how to pluck his ears myself and clean them out. And even with consistently doing that he still ended up with so much moisture trapped in there that it was a constant battle.

We have a toy poodle that has small ear canals and are constantly infected because of that, been to the vet 4 times in 2 years already. We are just now learning how to pluck them to help a little, hopefully it works. Problem is we have to pluck them when the ears are not red or in a problem time and the dog absolutely freaks out with even the smallest pluck. I asked the vet to give me larger bottles of medicine so I don't need to go so often for the same thing.