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Anyone else has a chocolate presa canario

Just checking to see if anyone else has had or seen this color presa before in America. Closest I found was in europe.
 

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Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
I don't know a lot about Presas, but I didn't think chocolate (or liver) was an acceptable color in the breed. Am I mistaken?
 
You might be right. The color doesnt look the same to me though. The liver and white is what was not accepted. No one ever told me that mine were incorrect before and the habe them registered in Europe. I' building my pedigree now to ukc and uppcc register mine now so I will find out soon. Anybody have anymore info on this matter .The pics I just posted are the one not accepted and my pups. Mine are a dark fawn I see it being called chocolate though.
 

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And I have solid black in my bloodline also. I hear peopl saying that' incorrect but the top spanish breeder have both of these colors in their bloodlines. And we talking 20k dog prices. That' would mean they are selli g incorrect dogs too
 
After a litter more research I'm seeing that it is a very rare dilution gene carried in presas and some other breeds that produce this color.
 

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kingmark

Well-Known Member
After a litter more research I'm seeing that it is a very rare dilution gene carried in presas and some other breeds that produce this color.
I have never seen that kind of colour in presa. Are you sure that it is not a cross? Did you bought it from europe?
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I didn't mean liver and chocolate were the same. I meant that liver also wasn't an acceptable color. According to the UKC standard for the Presa, that chocolate color appears to be a disqualification. The pup in the picture also doesn't appear to have the requisite mask, which would also be a fault. Very pretty pup, however.

"Any shade of fawn, black, and brindle in any combination of these colors. The face must have a black or dark brown mask that does not extend over the eyes, with or without a white blaze or patch on the head. Minimal white markings may appear anywhere between the chest and the throat, or on the toes.

Serious Fault: Mask that extends over the eyes.
Disqualifications: Absence of dark mask, white markings covering more than 20% of the dog, coat color or pattern other than described above"
 
All from same litter. So that mean some are presas and some are not because of color. I don' get this disqualification stuff. Please someone explain.
 

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Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Which brings me to my next question. (Disqualified from what).

I was hoping one of our members that breeds and shows would answer this, as I'm not the best to tackle the question. I'll give my opinion though. The breed standard is in place so that the qualities that are important to maintain the breed are consistent. I thought this link explained it pretty well.

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/activities/dog-showing/breed-standards/about-breed-standards/

As for disqualified from what, I believe that any trait that is a fault per the standard is a disqualification for showing. I also believe that if a dog has a disqualifying fault it probably shouldn't be bred. Like I said before, I don't know that much about the Presa. I do know something about other breeds and color genetics was an interest of mine. Certain colors are discouraged because they carry with them the risk of various health issues. There's also the possibility that some colors are due to an introduction of another breed. Breeding for color, in my experience, is done only for monetary purposes. So that someone can sell that "rare" color for a hefty price tag. I'm someone that believes that breeding should only be done to better the breed. Breeding for rare colors that aren't allowed per the standard go against that tenet and I would not purchase a pup from a breeder that purposely bred for color.

That doesn't mean that the pups that don't meet the standard for color won't make great pets or that they aren't purebred. It just means, to me, that they should not be purposely bred for nor should they be used as breeding dogs.
 
That' understandable but like any other breed or color that was looked down on, once and and ukc acknowledges the color then it' will be a good thing and u will still say they are bad for breeding or agree with the kennel clubs. The breed at 1 time was discouraged for breeding because no club acknowledged it as a breed. Ukc acknowledgment meant they were a good breed now?? Not to me I breed because I love the breed not because a club says yes or no. AKC lover still look down on this breed because the AKC won' register these dogs. Yet is the high light. Yet. I'm not on any band wagon and won' be. Like every other breed once y'll beloved kennel clubs say yes they will follow suit also.
 
Same as with the solid black color. It was said that was not a real presa and had to be mixed could not be good for a breeding program. The ukc said yes and everyne else behind them. Only people that contends with their acceptance are true to the breed owners. I' talking breeders that kill off pups that cone out certain colo gs8. Yes those people. I walute them though for not hopping from opinion to opinion.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Black doesn't carry a risk of health issues. Dilute colors may. UKC does not recognize the color you are talking about. I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are trying to justify adding this color to your breeding program. Until the parent club acknowledges it then it is unacceptable, IMO. What is the benefit of adding this color? Why is it desirable other than to make money because it's rare? I'm asking a serious question hoping to understand your thinking. You're also talking about culling dogs for color. Yes, that used to happen but now the word culling doesn't mean killing, at least not from an responsible breeder that I know. It means removing from the breeding program, generally by requiring spay or neuter.

I'm curious about your breeding program. Are you willing to share?
 
Im not wanting them to add any color to the standard . Im sayinv that is what happens. I' totally fine with my dogs not being accepted by a club. That' not important to me. As for breeding I go for being different. As in Isabella nose and chocolate mask. All my dogs have a mask it' just not black but dark brown. All my litter have ur (Standard) presa in them. No problem or health problem with them. None.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem with hobby breeders that adhere to the standard. I'm not a breed snob. I am very passionate about the breeds I love. Breeding for "different" is, imo, exactly what can ruin a breed. As does breeding dogs that may have inheritable conditions without passing recommended health tests. I, personally, can not support a breeder that breeds for different. That's just me. Good luck in your endeavors.
 
And I don' breed them to run and sell . I get people all around the country that like these dogs and want them. Oh can get a feel for intention most of the time by the conversation. Talking of liking aggression, askng how fast the pups sell of certain colors , and things like that signify fighters and Miller's. That' automatic (No pup s left or ridiculously high price) to politey refuse selling pups. I been breeding these dogs and my father way before me . Everything ofa certified and guaanteed. Im 28 been with these dogs since a baby. I just don' agree with being told certain dogs i have are trash because of the color
 

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Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Nobody said your dogs are trash. Like I said, it's my preference to support only breeders that produce dogs that meet the standard and that can show me health certification. My first love is the Boxer and it's a breed rampant with health issues. I've seen what has happened when people started to breed for different in that breed. As I said, I wish you the best of luck. Your dogs are lovely. You sound like you care for your dogs and place them carefully.