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Looking into getting a boerboel

Kenneth Smith Jr

Well-Known Member
People that do work with their dogs like myself and a great myriad of others around the world understand that before you invest hundreds of hours into any dog, you need to see its drives, you need to test its hips, you need to test its nerves. Nobody wants to develop a 25k dog just to end up with a hip problem a few years down the road. Since I use my dog for protection work in todays environment, I have learned a great deal about what's involved in training for this. I can attest having owned dogs both normal obedience trained and dogs with protection training the later puts the owner much more in touch with the dog. It creates a great deal of discipline and much higher levels of obedience and by the way, my dog absolutely loves it.

Nothing wrong with allowing a dog to learn and use some of its instinctual genetics. For this reason breeds play a big part in which dogs are chosen for protection work. Mastiff is one of the top choices. Also I would feel much safer walking near a big dog with protection training then walking near a big dog with someone that has no clue as to control their dog.

In this video and any other video where they are testing drive, normally the dogs are young as this one is only 11 months and most likely is basic obedience trained. They are in the woods so the atmosphere alone puts the dog alert, secondly the man is approaching in a threatening manor with a bite sleeve. If i'm at the mall and hundreds of people are walking passed, my dog continues walking like nothing. If someone approaches me in a rapid manor or a loud manor my dog becomes alert as almost any dog would. By the time this dog is done with its training and the dog is wrong in its instinctual plus trained response that the man is a threat in the woods, then his/her master will say no. I mean its a very simple concept.

Since the dog has a decent reaction to that, they can move forward with bite work, then outs recall and all else. Which would make this dog a very valuable, possibly life saving dog to someone.

I think personally anyone thinking of getting a Boerboel better understand these concepts because apparently many of these dogs are naturally on very high alert so breeders are being very selective rightfully so. Its not going to be some watered down version where its a crap shoot, yet anyway.
Steve thank you. I agree with all you said. I will keep you posted on my Corso’s progress. We are planning several things this year. 1. ATTS test in May
2. AKC novice Rally obedience competition in July with goal to go as high as we can
3. Parkour intermediate event in August
Hope to somehow get back into IPO soon.
As you can see love working with my girl. I plan on doing this with my boy Boerboel (my baby triplet of 10 is naming him Bubbles. Lol) a potential big dog of 150 name Bubbles to my protection.
 

kingmark

Well-Known Member
I must say that to me as a boerboel and dog owner doing bite work and all that protection stuff is the most stupidest thing in the world. Who ever needs that??? For what??? Absolutely and sadly bad things for boerboel.
 

Kenneth Smith Jr

Well-Known Member
I must say that to me as a boerboel and dog owner doing bite work and all that protection stuff is the most stupidest thing in the world. Who ever needs that??? For what??? Absolutely and sadly bad things for boerboel.
Is it bad cause it will make them unnecessarily aggressive? Again I prefer the other aspects of IPO training than bite work. I love the obedience, agility and tracking aspect
 

Steven C

Well-Known Member
Is it bad cause it will make them unnecessarily aggressive? Again I prefer the other aspects of IPO training than bite work. I love the obedience, agility and tracking aspect

Kenneth don't listen to these people. They don't work IPO. You and I on the other hand want to give our dogs work and make them happy. They want to buy a BIG dog and throw it in the house and cuddle with it. I feel sorry for those dogs. When you go to agility meet ups and groups, the dogs are happy working.

@kingmark whats idiotic is people like you promoting dogs that are instinctively guard dogs and telling people training them to control that is stupid. Another one with little to zero knowledge of working dogs. That is stupid.
 

Steven C

Well-Known Member
Steve thank you. I agree with all you said. I will keep you posted on my Corso’s progress. We are planning several things this year. 1. ATTS test in May
2. AKC novice Rally obedience competition in July with goal to go as high as we can
3. Parkour intermediate event in August
Hope to somehow get back into IPO soon.
As you can see love working with my girl. I plan on doing this with my boy Boerboel (my baby triplet of 10 is naming him Bubbles. Lol) a potential big dog of 150 name Bubbles to my protection.

Work her she will thank you for it. I love working mine too, she is going with me right now and she goes out with daily and its awesome. Sorry that the thread became the way it did, some people just will never understand the concept of working dogs. I hope I pass the the ATTS, looking for a place close by. lol
 

Kenneth Smith Jr

Well-Known Member
Kenneth don't listen to these people. They don't work IPO. You and I on the other hand want to give our dogs work and make them happy. They want to buy a BIG dog and throw it in the house and cuddle with it. I feel sorry for those dogs. When you go to agility meet ups and groups, the dogs are happy working.

@kingmark whats idiotic is people like you promoting dogs that are instinctively guard dogs and telling people training them to control that is stupid. Another one with little to zero knowledge of working dogs. That is stupid.
Steve exactly my thinking. Any dog that works closely with their owner no matter what they choose to do together is a happy dog and of course happy owner. I believe the benefits with IPO out weighs any negative that could happen (in my opinion i do not see)
 

marke

Well-Known Member
get yourself a prey driven pup , raised by someone who knows how to and has encouraged their prey drive ……. make bitework a game , fun , it should be a game for a mastiff until at least 2 years , you can leave it a game forever and achieve all the titles you wish with an appropriate dog …….. I've seen many mastiffs , in fact most I've seen titled , achieve a bh as 2-3yr old dogs some older , they mature slower , they learn slower ….. certainly anyone who ties an 11 month old dog to a tree and threatens them to make him defend himself is ignorant of what they are actually doing …… making a dangerous dog doesn't take any talent whatsoever ……. I've seen guys do it with mastiffs for decades , guys I knew who were completely clueless , guys I now see on the internet as experts , as clueless as ever ………….
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Steven, I'd really like to know why watching the video would be a waste of my time. We're all here, or should be, to learn from each other. Answers like that don't help anyone learn.
 

Steven C

Well-Known Member
Since we live in the land of Unicorns and Lucky Charms and never a threat, theft or violence anymore. lol The same place trained these 2 Boerboels, look at the mass. Incredible. Truth is they are in Russia and dogs like this are necessary for smart people as they are in many parts of the states now also. Its amazing how peoples minds change after someone gets robbed, invaded, raped or shot. My wife and I will always live with a working protection dog.

 

Kenneth Smith Jr

Well-Known Member
Since we live in the land of Unicorns and Lucky Charms and never a threat, theft or violence anymore. lol The same place trained these 2 Boerboels, look at the mass. Incredible. Truth is they are in Russia and dogs like this are necessary for smart people as they are in many parts of the states now also. Its amazing how peoples minds change after someone gets robbed, invaded, raped or shot. My wife and I will always live with a working protection dog.

That is true protection work. You know the dogs are trained cause they went to knock the intruder down and went for the face. They didn’t stop until the owners came over and pulled them off. Once off they were under control of the owners.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
last week an apartment across from my job 3pm Cleveland , ohio , west 85th and lake , there was a fight , 3 people were stabbed , ems and maybe 15-20 cops , I watched one get the dog out his car , there was a group of maybe 20 people standing around , as the cop walked by that crowd , if he hadn't pulled that dog back 3-4 times I saw , that dog would have bitten 3-4 people , not from bad training , because it's a dog …….

here's probably what those yahoos thought they were doing , i'm sure with your experience the difference is obvious …… one dog is in defense , one isn't …….. the one stupid thing to do with that kind of training is to put the dog in defense , unless you just don't know how to tell , or the dog is unsuitable …….. that boerboel given a longer lead would have hidden behind that woman 3-4 times …….

 

glen

Super Moderator
Staff member
Just a quick question to marke and boxergirl, a little off topic but training.
I respect both of you with having great dog knowledge, so do you notice a difference between the male and females in the mastiffs going into a home with first time owners, im helping someone with a female so this isnt digging at anyone on this thread, i was just thinking in my head and being grateful they hadnt tried it with my boys and certainly hadnt got a pup like budcuss, im in the uk so these breeds are only just booming here, in the last 6 months we are having to help and rehabilitate and rehome.
 

BlackShadowCaneCorso

Super Moderator
Staff member
I am not going to lie I didn't watch much of the video, I rarely do as there are far too many that lack the knowledge to work with mastiff breeds, there is a general lack of understanding in the timeline for maturing as they are too often compared to breeds like GSD or Mals who mature faster. Obedience should be first focus of any breed that is going into these types of sports and only after there is complete control and compliance to the owners commands should anything go farther. In the little I did watch of the video I didn't see an overly confident puppy, I saw a lot of uncertainty and the dog looking to the owner for reassurance. If she had more line I do honestly think she would have backed off but as there was no where to go she had to push forward, taking shallow bites more in an effort to intimidate, similar to her constant barking and looking to the owner for reassurance. That being said she is also an 11 month old puppy that based on her reaction I don't think she was conditioned to be an IPO/protection prospect, which will likely make her training a little harder. The thing that one has to remember is that IPO is a sport. Dogs can be trained to perform in any sport with enough time, and IPO certainly requires a huge time commitment. However, even dogs trained in a protection sport have been known to cave under pressure in real life situations.

A dog does not have to be trained to bite, they have to be trained when it is appropriate to bite and that when an owner/handler is present they always defer back to them. Mastiff breeds/mastiff type dogs for the most part are defense driven breeds which is why most are not suitable to work in sports that are high prey drive.

I honestly think if you want to do IPO, go for it but find a trainer that is familiar with mastiffs and the temperament and development. If at all possible have that trainer help you evaluate puppies when you are looking at litters.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
Just a quick question to marke and boxergirl, a little off topic but training.
I respect both of you with having great dog knowledge, so do you notice a difference between the male and females in the mastiffs going into a home with first time owners, im helping someone with a female so this isnt digging at anyone on this thread, i was just thinking in my head and being grateful they hadnt tried it with my boys and certainly hadnt got a pup like budcuss, im in the uk so these breeds are only just booming here, in the last 6 months we are having to help and rehabilitate and rehome.


I've honestly never placed a pup with a first time owner ……. as far as the males and females I've kept , I've kept at least 10 females to every male , but if I had to guess , my experiences are much greater in number with females , with that said the most difficult dogs I've had overall have been females ………… right now the male I got anyone would love to have , he's easy and sweet , his sister not so much , she is sweet , just not easy , last time she was at the vet I got the impression she was considering biting her , she's constantly busy , high energy , a bit mistrusting of strangers ………. I had a male simon , trusted everyone , was afraid of absolutely nothing , way sweet , very dumb , at that time the most difficult dog I had was his daughter mouse , she was sweet but could be a bit unpredictable , she'd get a dislike for someone for no reason , could be a bit tough to deal with along with strange dog aggression …… I had a male named willow , really mellow , lazy , very sweet dog , liked everyone , at the time the most difficult dog I had would have been a female named dazey , she bit a few folks which caused me to get uneasy when she was around folks , which made her uneasy around folks , which i'm sure made the situation worse , I feel i'd handle it better today , but I doubt I could do anything to make it better , it's not like I could assume she'd be alright and give her a chance …... I had a male named sam , without question the most dangerous of any dog I've had ever , he was dangerous to strangers , he was very obedient , very high strung , pretty dog aggressive , the word surly I seen describe old Bordeaux tempers fit him perfectly , he didn't like much and was almost always serious , only dog I ever had bloat …… another male I had named tubby , easy , obedient , sweet , except for his food issues . the sweetest , most obedient , trusting dog I've ever had , and probably ever will , was a female named digit ……… after thinking about that out loud , I guess I couldn't say …. the most dog aggressive dog I've had was a female named jojo , stubborn , mouthy , very sweet to everyone ……. the dog aggression was really tough to deal with , it was over the top …...
 

kingmark

Well-Known Member
Is it bad cause it will make them unnecessarily aggressive? Again I prefer the other aspects of IPO training than bite work. I love the obedience, agility and tracking aspect
It could make them more agressive as they are protective already. As for agility thats fine i am also considering doing agility with my girl as she is very athletic with drive when it suits her as she also has super nose so tracking would also be good for her. You will see when you get your puppy and go from there ,but remember once boerboel always boerboel :)
 

kingmark

Well-Known Member
Kenneth don't listen to these people. They don't work IPO. You and I on the other hand want to give our dogs work and make them happy. They want to buy a BIG dog and throw it in the house and cuddle with it. I feel sorry for those dogs. When you go to agility meet ups and groups, the dogs are happy working.

@kingmark whats idiotic is people like you promoting dogs that are instinctively guard dogs and telling people training them to control that is stupid. Another one with little to zero knowledge of working dogs. That is stupid.
Anything idiotic in all this are you and your posts. As long as you have all the knowledge you are the man
 

Kenneth Smith Jr

Well-Known Member
I am not going to lie I didn't watch much of the video, I rarely do as there are far too many that lack the knowledge to work with mastiff breeds, there is a general lack of understanding in the timeline for maturing as they are too often compared to breeds like GSD or Mals who mature faster. Obedience should be first focus of any breed that is going into these types of sports and only after there is complete control and compliance to the owners commands should anything go farther. In the little I did watch of the video I didn't see an overly confident puppy, I saw a lot of uncertainty and the dog looking to the owner for reassurance. If she had more line I do honestly think she would have backed off but as there was no where to go she had to push forward, taking shallow bites more in an effort to intimidate, similar to her constant barking and looking to the owner for reassurance. That being said she is also an 11 month old puppy that based on her reaction I don't think she was conditioned to be an IPO/protection prospect, which will likely make her training a little harder. The thing that one has to remember is that IPO is a sport. Dogs can be trained to perform in any sport with enough time, and IPO certainly requires a huge time commitment. However, even dogs trained in a protection sport have been known to cave under pressure in real life situations.

A dog does not have to be trained to bite, they have to be trained when it is appropriate to bite and that when an owner/handler is present they always defer back to them. Mastiff breeds/mastiff type dogs for the most part are defense driven breeds which is why most are not suitable to work in sports that are high prey drive.

I honestly think if you want to do IPO, go for it but find a trainer that is familiar with mastiffs and the temperament and development. If at all possible have that trainer help you evaluate puppies when you are looking at litters.
It could make them more agressive as they are protective already. As for agility thats fine i am also considering doing agility with my girl as she is very athletic with drive when it suits her as she also has super nose so tracking would also be good for her. You will see when you get your puppy and go from there ,but remember once boerboel always boerboel :)
kingmark,
Thank you. I will see once the puppies are born. The breeders are close so once born they invited me over as much as I need. This way I can see the growth, personalities and drive. Then I can decide which is best for our family. The other great thing Dekken boerboel breed great athletic dogs. When I met them and the dogs two weeks ago the first thing I said to myself was wow agility or dock diving is in the future. Along with nose work cause of their natural sensitive and great smell. After Reading all the post; bottom line and most important is developing a relationship with the dog becoming a family (with me of course being the pack leader) and ultimately enjoying one another no matter how we choose to do this. Again thank you all for your input and suggestions. I will keep you all posted.
 

Steven C

Well-Known Member
The video was posted as it was the first video that came up when I searched for Boerboel protection. It was not intended to be analyzed. Also that dog is now 2.5 years old and is an outstanding personal protection dog for someone. It was a test for personal protection is all and it probably barely made it. It was being tested so late at 11 months because it was someones dog that wanted to make it a more controlled personal protection dog. What we were analyzing was the fact that the dog protested being held back from biting this guy and the handler almost got into a jam and she had to walk away to snap the dogs mind. That that was common for that to happen when building or testing drives.

Personal protection or IPO it is better to imprint the dog as a puppy moving forward and even better to buy from a breeder that imprints from the moment it opens its eyes. Most working dog kennels will work the dogs from 5 weeks until the puppy leaves and the longer the puppy stays the more expensive it gets as the training doesn't stop. Well worth the money to find a breeder that imprints, not just typical feed, let out to play and love on. This allows a breeder to correctly match a dog to a potential buyer as it knows its working abilities, it also gives a huge jump start to a buyer that wants to work with their dog.