Dog vs security system

[Annette Coleman]

In another thread, someone suggested that a potential first time Corso owner get a security system instead of taking the risks of a dog with a guardian temperament. My mom told me the same thing when I got my first guard dog. My response was that in a true emergency everything will be over before the police arrive. Even though a dog is no match for an armed invader, he could buy me the few precious seconds I need to escape. Thoughts?

 

[marke]

a dog in conjunction with a gun is as good of a security system as you can get ........ as far as not being home a dog and something like adt is as good as you can get ..... dogs are without question deterrents , and great alarms , folks looking to rob houses avoid them for a few reasons , they're noisey and they may bite .......nobody in their right mind going in a backyard or a house with a strange big dog threatening them .......... I lived in a pretty crime ridden neighborhood in Cleveland , i'm sure it's always top 10 in the country , most likely top 5 most violent crime , had two neos , lived on an alley behind an industrial parkway , everybody got robbed in the 10yrs I lived their , my next door neighbor while he was home sleeping , I was never robbed , and I left my back door open for the dogs ...... I had a big tree in the middle of the back yard , it was pitch black back there in the summer , you could only hear those neos at night , you couldn't see them . it was a good effect , those dogs loved everybody but it didn't sound like it ......... as far as keeping dogs that will naturally attack strangers , I've known folks inbreed ,linebreed on dogs that hated people , got pups hated people , I've been shown that that is a working temperament , some of those dogs achieved the highest protection titles there are , and they weren't mals , DS , or GSD , they were American bulldogs ...... they might have "working" tempers , but not in the right hands they were nothing but dangerous .....I've seen what happens to most of those dogs , it's pretty sad , it's a pet peeve of mine , had a friend teach his akita to bite people for real ,I knew that dog since he was a pup , I couldn't take him , I had kids , the dog ended up shot like so many I know of , wish I could have taken him to this day just remembering him .... it boggles my mind that folks think there is a place for those dogs ,there may be , but those places are few and far between ......... seen a secret service dog (mal) , that was actually used to protect the president of the United States , take a boot to the face and ran away ........ those hateful AB's I don't think would run off if you shot them .....

dogs are also great at livestock , predator control , they tend to be stupid bold with animals

 

[Steven C]

, had a friend teach his akita to bite people for real ,I knew that dog since he was a pup , I couldn't take him , I had kids , the dog ended up shot like so many I know of , wish I could have taken him to this day just remembering him
dogs are also great at livestock , predator control , they tend to be stupid bold with animals

Especially if you see the movie Hatchi, the greatest dog movie made(true story). It will give you a great feeling about Akita dogs and the unrivaled loyalty of dogs that humans rarely deserve.

I think you can have protection/pet if trained properly. Not pet that lays with you on the couch craving affection, but livable in conjunction with family type dogs. Just like many police dogs or military dogs that go home with the handlers and retire with the handlers and their families.

 

[marke]

I've seen and read thousands of these type events involving professionally trained dogs taught to bite over my time with dogs , the private sector being way worse than this ...... you teach a dog to bite and you got a liability for the lifetime of that dog , you teach a dog that is wired to bite that it's ok to bite , you got a potential disaster ..... as far as protection sport , while being well trained dogs , most of them are no more protection that one of my pets .............. I've known way too many people that done this stuff ........until not too long ago they were all put down after they were retired , now I believe some that are deemed adoptable can be adopted by QUALIFIED owners into approved conditions ....

 

[marke]

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[marke]

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[Steven C]

The dog who bit him in the crotch must have deserved it. lol J/K

Yes true, but there are just as many vids on trained protection dogs that call off very easily. Its all about the recall, without recall you have a problem and they say with mastiff dogs if you ever really piss one off its like nothing you've seen. Have you seen a mastiff get really angry? I'm not talking about angry in a fight with another mastiff, I'm talking about angry angry? In France they have a saying about an angry bordeuax dogue. They say nobody can stop a mastiff once it goes over the limit of anger, bats or anything but it takes an awful lot to get to that level, few have seen it.

I do agree that most people should not even consider training a dog with bite work. Personally I have already mentioned here on this site that I probably will not do bite work with mine as I know these dogs are already .40 calibers. And in my line of work and where I live where life is cheap we need all the extra security, believe me.

I will however do the best possible recall ever just in case, which we are working on daily. ​

By the way, my DDB attacked without even being trained to attack so saying these dogs will not harm a criminal is just wrong. Energy is everything, and if they sense something nefarious, they (guardian breeds) will attack without training. Did you recently see the service golden on a flight bite the passenger next to them? That dog did not bite, what happened was the guy was making a fuss about the dog before he even sat down, hated dogs. The dog felt the negative energy and bit the idiot. Even the airline didn't ban the dog, they should have banned the nasty guy.

 

[Boxergirl]

Did you recently see the service golden on a flight bite the passenger next to them? That dog did not bite, what happened was the guy was making a fuss about the dog before he even sat down, hated dogs. The dog felt the negative energy and bit the idiot. Even the airline didn't ban the dog, they should have banned the nasty guy.

It doesn't matter how negative the person's energy was or how badly he was behaving, a service dog should never bite or even attempt to bite. That would be grounds for washing the dog. If this is the incident that happened on a Delta flight back in ... June?, it was an ESA rather than a service dog. It also was required to be kenneled to fly after the incident, which I think was more than fair - probably generous. Behavior like that makes it that much more difficult for people with service dogs to move freely with them in public. Particularly if your disability isn't readily visible.

 

[marke]

my dogues are not people aggressive , I've had a couple over the years , distrustful and defensive ..... I wouldn't breed that temper . that along with fearful are the only criteria besides movement that I have ever used , I do like prey driven dogs ..... those two temperaments would eliminate a dog regardless of anything else ........... as a kid and a young man I had a knack for hitting stuff , it's what I did ......... I broke my hand on a Bordeaux bitches head , multiple blows , I know for a fact most people couldn't have taken any one of them well , she never acknowledged she even knew I was there , I had to choke her off and carry her away to pen to lock her up and go back and choke her sister off , neither dog was offended in the least , my dogues have flawless tempers , as many bordeauxs do ...... your video on the ddb daisey , scared and disoriented , that dog never thought about biting anyone , folks may call that temper watered down , I call it perfect in that situation .... the only ones hurt in my incident was me breaking my hand , and the dog they were killing needed a vet asap ...... I was pretty physically capable at the time , I've broken up enough dog fights , been inadvertently bitten and seen the damage done to the dogs , i'm fairly certain one of my dogs with the wrong temperament could kill a person , two and I have little doubt .......who's going to take a chance on a strange animal that's threatening you , and might be capable of killing you , regardless of what their temper may be ..... i'd be interested to know how many folks on this board have needed their mastiffs or someone they know needed a mastiff to attack and fight a person ? there is no place I know of for one of my dogs with a man "working " temper , at least no place i'd want one of my pups going ...... nothing wrong with protection sport , most of those dogs are just playing ...... I've known quite a few hog hunters , those dogs are for real , they're trained from the time they're 6-8weeks old , I've never known one to out on command , they're pried off and held back to prevent them from reengaging , I've never known of one of those hog dogs that was not people safe ....... ever seen them confiscate gamedogs , almost everyone you'll ever see is nothing but friendly to the folks taking them , and those dogs are on chains , a dog on a chain is going to be as defensive as they get ....... I've seen protection dogs and police k9 dogs that needed pried off and held back just like a hog dog or a gamedog ..... my guess is those are the real ones and they aren't getting adopted as kids pets .........

 

[Justin B.]

There is a huge difference between basic personal protection training or home invasion work and police attack dogs.

Its not the same thing.

Countless example of dogs titled and not that can fight a man and still be a normal pet.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp3Wm_bIrxRr5oJUJs0FjQ/videos?disable_polymer=1

This guy has a whole Youtube channel of him testing his dogs and him also socializing his dogs and his young kids handling, living,and playing with the dogs.
Disclaimer: i dont agree with everything this guy says or does. Especially about Corsos. But he does have an excellent dog in Tank.

Pretty common.

 

[Steven C]

It doesn't matter how negative the person's energy was or how badly he was behaving, a service dog should never bite or even attempt to bite. That would be grounds for washing the dog. If this is the incident that happened on a Delta flight back in ... June?, it was an ESA rather than a service dog. It also was required to be kenneled to fly after the incident, which I think was more than fair - probably generous. Behavior like that makes it that much more difficult for people with service dogs to move freely with them in public. Particularly if your disability isn't readily visible.

True, but the point of the story was not that it was ok to bite, was the fact that its a misconception to think a guardian breed dog will not attack a criminal that is harming its owner, or robbing the property uninvited. If someone is harming another or have bad intentions whether you know it or not, the dog will sense the energy much more that we do.

Why is that children should not play fight near guardian breeds? Anyone who owns these dogs has to know that. It has nothing to do with whether the dog is trained to bite or not bite, it is instinctual response.

Had it been me on that flight with the ESA or service or whatever you call it, I would have asked to be moved if possible as I would have known the guy was an idiot and its important to stay away from idiots when you own any dog even the best trained dogs. Never right that the dog bit him, just common sense as he cursed the dog the entire flight, possibly even pushed the dog from stories i've read.

@marke wrote that his dogs would not attack anyone, even intruders and I disagree. If they were untrained non guardian dogs yes, but these dogs will act on intruders or their masters being harmed, nothing wrong with that.

 

[marke]

this is absolutely a pet peeve of mine , I been watching that crap as long as the internet been up .......... internet videos of a dog playing don't impress me much anymore , dogs in defense even less , defense doesn't even require training , which is why most wannabe protection dog trainers I've known use it , because it's a skillless easy way to get a dog to bite , whether they are suitable or not .... it also impresses a lot of folks , i'm sure sells pups ...... I know folks been making those videos for decades , they just had more experience than this guy seems to have ....... and I knew the dogs they used to make those videos , some real ones , and some not so real ones ............ I seriously doubt this guy has ever had his dog in a real bite , aside from an accident ..........while I didn't watch it all , I did see at 2:28 his dog bit a guy on a bare arm , you can see the arm after the bite , I see no blood and the dog didn't hold or shake the bite , i'd assume because it wasn't a sleeve , the reason he showed it is he probably thought it was impressive , to me it was the opposite , he cut out quick because the guy wasn't hurt enough ...... I knew a cao that you'd need a helmet a facemask and a full body suit , and you for sure wouldn't be doing that without him tethered , a real natural man dog ..... the only thing he'd use the sleeve for is to pull you closer so he could get to your body or head , I've seen it ......... my ex-brother in laws filas would bite your legs , feet , face , stomach , hands , anything and everything , seen that too , he doesn't have them anymore ......... i'd guess running your dog next to your car might be a perspective thing ......

i'd wonder exactley how long he's been raising and keeping defensive agitated dogs around his kids ? his kennels would be best with a concrete floor with drains , do it once do it right , but hindsight is 20/20 .....I wish him the best with his endeavor , looks like he's putting a lot into it ........

 

[Boxergirl]

True, but the point of the story was not that it was ok to bite, was the fact that its a misconception to think a guardian breed dog will not attack a criminal that is harming its owner, or robbing the property uninvited. If someone is harming another or have bad intentions whether you know it or not, the dog will sense the energy much more that we do.

Why is that children should not play fight near guardian breeds? Anyone who owns these dogs has to know that. It has nothing to do with whether the dog is trained to bite or not bite, it is instinctual response.

Had it been me on that flight with the ESA or service or whatever you call it, I would have asked to be moved if possible as I would have known the guy was an idiot and its important to stay away from idiots when you own any dog even the best trained dogs. Never right that the dog bit him, just common sense as he cursed the dog the entire flight, possibly even pushed the dog from stories i've read.

@marke wrote that his dogs would not attack anyone, even intruders and I disagree. If they were untrained non guardian dogs yes, but these dogs will act on intruders or their masters being harmed, nothing wrong with that.

That is not at all the interpretation I had of your post. It seemed, to me, that you felt the dog was justified in it's actions. I'm still getting that impression. I'm sure that's a misinterpretation on my part. I also don't think the dog in question was a guardian breed, nor was it acting in a personal protection capacity. Anyone with a SD knows people are idiots and as the handler you must make sure that your dog doesn't instinctually bite or threaten anyone, no matter how big of an idiot they are. You have even more responsibility if you choose a guardian breed as a service animal or an ESA. I think this is relevant as the OP has chosen a CC for service dog duties. I'm not saying a service dog should never protect their owner, but in the example cited the dog wasn't justified in biting. Just clarifying my thoughts.

 

[marke]

Steven , the only reason you might get bit by one of my dogs coming in the house or yard is because there are 4 of them , they can work each other up and do stuff they'd never do by themselves .......

 

[Justin B.]

this is absolutely a pet peeve of mine , I been watching that crap as long as the internet been up .......... internet videos of a dog playing don't impress me much anymore , dogs in defense even less , defense doesn't even require training , which is why most wannabe protection dog trainers I've known use it , because it's a skillless easy way to get a dog to bite , whether they are suitable or not .... it also impresses a lot of folks , i'm sure sells pups ...... I know folks been making those videos for decades , they just had more experience than this guy seems to have ....... and I knew the dogs they used to make those videos , some real ones , and some not so real ones ............ I seriously doubt this guy has ever had his dog in a real bite , aside from an accident ..........while I didn't watch it all , I did see at 2:28 his dog bit a guy on a bare arm , you can see the arm after the bite , I see no blood and the dog didn't hold or shake the bite , i'd assume because it wasn't a sleeve , the reason he showed it is he probably thought it was impressive , to me it was the opposite , he cut out quick because the guy wasn't hurt enough ...... I knew a cao that you'd need a helmet a facemask and a full body suit , and you for sure wouldn't be doing that without him tethered , a real natural man dog ..... the only thing he'd use the sleeve for is to pull you closer so he could get to your body or head , I've seen it ......... my ex-brother in laws filas would bite your legs , feet , face , stomach , hands , anything and everything , seen that too , he doesn't have them anymore ......... i'd guess running your dog next to your car might be a perspective thing ......

i'd wonder exactley how long he's been raising and keeping defensive agitated dogs around his kids ? his kennels would be best with a concrete floor with drains , do it once do it right , but hindsight is 20/20 .....I wish him the best with his endeavor , looks like he's putting a lot into it ........

You missed a lot of the vids or you intentionally left them out.

Enjoy your false narrative.

 

[Steven C]

That is not at all the interpretation I had of your post. It seemed, to me, that you felt the dog was justified in it's actions. I'm still getting that impression. I'm sure that's a misinterpretation on my part. I also don't think the dog in question was a guardian breed, nor was it acting in a personal protection capacity. Anyone with a SD knows people are idiots and as the handler you must make sure that your dog doesn't instinctually bite or threaten anyone, no matter how big of an idiot they are. You have even more responsibility if you choose a guardian breed as a service animal or an ESA. I think this is relevant as the OP has chosen a CC for service dog duties. I'm not saying a service dog should never protect their owner, but in the example cited the dog wasn't justified in biting. Just clarifying my thoughts.

Believe me I'm as conscious about liability as anyone else. I watched my friend in NY settle a case for 60k cash for his GSD dragging a realtor through the back yard even though she entered the property without asking permission. I myself have been attacked badly by a GSD that ripped me open so I do know the misfortune of both sides.

I was using the Golden retreiver incident as an bad energy response (I believe the guy pushed the dog) still not justified, I also mentioned that I think most guardian breeds will attack an intruder without training as it is a breed instinct. The reason for believing aside from learning all about the breed is because my own DDB attacked me in the dark when he didn't know it was me on 2 occasions. On a separate occasion we tested this with a friend in a bite suit entering the house while we were in the back room, these dogs do not cower down and lick intruders with or without training.

 

[Steven C]

Steven , the only reason you might get bit by one of my dogs coming in the house or yard is because there are 4 of them , they can work each other up and do stuff they'd never do by themselves .......

I was pretty shocked when my DDB who had the best temperament ever acted on surprise visits or threats. Not saying that the dogs are mean or violent, just saying that I believe they act on criminal activity better than other untrained protection dogs.

I do understand what you are saying with more than one also. I have read horror stories in the news usually involving 2 dogs so I guess they work each other up somehow.

 

[Annette Coleman]

I was pretty shocked when my DDB who had the best temperament ever acted on surprise visits or threats. Not saying that the dogs are mean or violent, just saying that I believe they act on criminal activity better than other untrained protection dogs.

I do understand what you are saying with more than one also. I have read horror stories in the news usually involving 2 dogs so I guess they work each other up somehow.

 

[Annette Coleman]

Dogs are naturally pack animals and do feed off of each other’s energy and that dogs will follow their leader in an attack. It’s also why guardian Bree are more volatile around nervous handlers: the handler may be nervous about how the dog will react but the dog reads nervous and instinctively reacts to protect from whatever they perceive to be making the handler nervous.

 

[marke]

You missed a lot of the vids or you intentionally left them out.

Enjoy your false narrative.

you'll need to point out what I missed ? more agitating a defensive dog ? table training without the table .......... or a decoy petting the dog that's biting him ? without a coat or sleeve ? a loose dog biting a guy in shorts with his coat open ? hey i'm not trying to knock the guy he seems to love his dogs , like I said he is putting a lot of effort in them , hopefully it's a long term thing ........ I assure you all those dogs in those "cop k9 bites someone they shouldn't" videos were trained by more experienced people , better pedigreed , and better evaluated than any dog in any cc protection video your going to find .....do you have any idea how common that is ? ...a dog has the reasoning and emotional potential of possibly a 3 yr old person ......