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reasons for altering

babyjoemurphy

Well-Known Member
This isn't about going off on anyone. If someone being a new mastiff owner came on here thinking this thread was gonna help they would find it to be rather confusing.

No matter what study is put up here there is always another that will wash that one away and vice versa.
People have a hard time comparing horses to dogs to humans end of story.
Old school thinking and new science will always but heads.
Ultimately it comes down to your own thoughts, teachings and research. At the end 9f the day the decision is your no matter what anyone else thinks.


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Th0r

Well-Known Member
Dogs are not predators. They are scavengers. Basically a failed evolution of wolves but a good failure!
Anyway if you neuter, the sexual drive will dissappear or diminish so if that's what you want then go for it.
May reduce roaming due to trying to expand marking territory and etc!
 

Nik

Well-Known Member
I find it interesting that males are thought to be more aggressive than females. I haven't done the research on this myself so I can't say factually one way or the other.

But I can say that in my experience my male dogs have always had a calmer, sweeter and more even temper than my female dogs. Oddly enough I can say the same of the cats in my life. This has led me to have a preference for male animals for the most part.

I guess it could just be my luck and I'm an anomaly or something but every male animal I have ever had or been aquatinted with has had zero aggression and been very affectionate. It's the females who always seem to have the aggression issues and need the extra training in my experience.

I just find that curious.


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Liz_M

Well-Known Member
Welll in terms of dog aggression, bitches are much more likely to fight to the death; dogs just posture more and mix it up to prove a point and get the other to back down with lots of sturm and drang. (You can google this.) And I don't think it matters if they're altered or not. Most scary fight I ever personally dealt with were two neutered male Rottweilers who were tangled up for a good 5-10 minutes before I was able to get them apart (by throwing a quilt over them and dragging one out the door) but for all the snarling and rolling around, there was barely a mark on either dog.

I've certainly had some dominant and not-so-sweet male Rottweilers, but what I've noticed is that males tend to be more honest. They will signal and let people or other dogs know when they're uncomfortable or planning on escalating, while (in my experience only and I know anecdotes are not data) bitches will be more likely to launch a sneak attack, IOW not give clear signals.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
to this day they still match dogs , some places it's still legal ..... pitbulls , tosa , kangals , alabai , cao , stafforshires , bully kutta , ect ..............and you won't see nobody bringing a bitch to match a dog ....... sometimes decades , centuries of anecdotal evidence is by far the best info your gonna get.........
 

Liz_M

Well-Known Member
to this day they still match dogs , some places it's still legal ..... pitbulls , tosa , kangals , alabai , cao , stafforshires , bully kutta , ect ..............and you won't see nobody bringing a bitch to match a dog ....... sometimes decades , centuries of anecdotal evidence is by far the best info your gonna get.........

I suspect that is not because of inherent dog traits, but because those who get off on fighting dogs are mostly men and they need that validation.
I have been at ground zero at several dog fight operations and it is an ugly thing populated by small, weak men who require their dogs to be tough because they're not capable themselves. I've been involved with bully dog rescue in one of the most dangerous cities in America for over 20 years and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who gets off on fighting or game dogs needs to be neutered. You see the aftermath of an organized dog fight without wanting to cry or throw up or both...it is horrible.

So basically I do not give a flying fuck about dog fighting tradition or whatever culrtural flim-flam you attempt to bring to the table. To ,me it is weak, stupid and cruel wanna-be machismo by little stupid men at the expense of loyal dogs.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
this has nothing to do with dog fighting , the people that do it , or their character , male dogs are the ones who fight , male lions fight , male deer fight , male wolves , bulls , stallions , ........males fight , it has to do with testosterone , and being male ....for some reason it's the way God made it ............ if you been at ground zero you know they match males to males , not bitches , and you know the reason for it , it's about having the winning dog , not the winning male dog .. they do match bitches , just not against males ........ as far as dog fighting , your preaching to the choir ............... just cause you don't like a fact , doesn't make it not a fact .....as far as females being the rough ones , perspective is everything ......... you better look out , i'll bring up horses again ..............
 

Liz_M

Well-Known Member
this has nothing to do with dog fighting , the people that do it , or their character , male dogs are the ones who fight , male lions fight , male deer fight , male wolves , bulls , stallions , ........males fight , it has to do with testosterone , and being male ....for some reason it's the way God made it ............ if you been at ground zero you know they match males to males , not bitches , and you know the reason for it , it's about having the winning dog , not the winning male dog .. they do match bitches , just not against males ........ as far as dog fighting , your preaching to the choir ............... just cause you don't like a fact , doesn't make it not a fact .....as far as females being the rough ones , perspective is everything ......... you better look out , i'll bring up horses again ..............

Got any cites?
Without anything to back up your opinion, your words are just that: words. A random online opinion. And we all know what they say about those.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
any cites ??????? I am actually surprised that anything I have said would not just be common knowledge , I mean y'all are animal people aren't you .......... being at "ground zero" you did see what sex 90% of the dogs were didn't you ? it wasn't because of little incapable stupid owners , it's because males are the rough ones ........ hey , there are some rough bitches , I've had some , it's just not the norm .............
 

Liz_M

Well-Known Member
any cites ??????? I am actually surprised that anything I have said would not just be common knowledge , I mean y'all are animal people aren't you .......... being at "ground zero" you did see what sex 90% of the dogs were didn't you ? it wasn't because of little incapable stupid owners , it's because males are the rough ones ........ hey , there are some rough bitches , I've had some , it's just not the norm .............

No cites, nothing to back up your claims. So just another random person making unsubstantiated claims on the internet, oh my.

I assumed that what I wrote was common knowledge too. I can provide cites. Can you? Double dog dare you. You show me yours and I'll show you mine. Deal? ;)
 

Tunride

Well-Known Member
I was going to have our 2 yr. old male Neo/Shar Pei? mix neutered soon, but after reading some of the new studies on neutered males and health problems, nope we are not. Bubbles is probably a mix with Shar Pei due to hair on back and size. He is a loveable big puppy. Plays with anyone who comes in the house, even new people. When Karma was in heat we just kept her in the other area of the house, with no chance of contact. Sure Bubbles was sniffing every blade of grass and outside longer than usual. He showed no aggression or acting out. He did not "ride" Snookums or bother her although she is spayed(at 2 1/2 yrs. old). I probably will never fix another dog I own.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
mine actually doesn't come by way of google , but here you go .........................................Wolf Packs & Their Pecking Order
Alpha Male

The alpha male is the boss. He eats first, has his pick of mates, and leads the pack during hunts and when dealing with threats to survival. An alpha male typically will select a mate from within the pack to whom he remains paired, although he may elect to separate from his mate and mate with a different female. The alpha male rarely has cause for aggression or violence toward subordinate wolves, instead asserting his dominance through a series of ritualized gestures, such as the alpha roll, scruff shaking and staring. When challenged for top position by a young pretender, the alpha male either will concede immediately or fight to retain his position, depending on his age and health. When the alpha male dies or is driven from the pack, the next most dominant male assumes his position.
http://animals.mom.me/wolf-packs-pecking-order-3463.html
When you see two adult male mammals, e.g. male deer or primates you may sometimes make a good guess of which animal is dominant and which is subordinate because you can compare and rank the animals according to their strength or power and there is usually a good correlation between strength or power and dominance. You can guess who is dominant and who is subordinate just by looking at them............................. When you see two adult male mammals, e.g. male deer or primates you may sometimes make a good guess of which animal is dominant and which is subordinate because you can compare and rank the animals according to their strength or power and there is usually a good correlation between strength or power and dominance. You can guess who is dominant and who is subordinate just by looking at them.
http://life.bio.sunysb.edu/bio359/4_26_02
Pairs of male squirrel monkeys established reliable and persistent dominance relationships with dominant males showing increased sexual and aggressive behavior as well as higher plasma concentrations of testosterone.
Home - PubMed - NCBI
There are several factors that determine an animals place in a social hierarchy. Among these factors are: age (older > younger), weight (heavier> lighter), size (larger > smaller), sex (male > female), seniority (established member of the group > new member to the group),
http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~wrstrick/secu/ansc455/lab7.htm Gorilla Social Structure
There is a dominant male in each troop who has a very important role. The other gorillas rely on him to decide when they move, to resolve conflicts within the troop, and even to fight for them when there are predators trying to attack.
http://www.gorillas-world.com/gorilla-social-structure/
The Hippo social structure is very interesting, and has been carefully observed on many levels. Males can stake a claim to a stretch of territory where they will reign. There is a dominant male in the herd that is allowed to control what the females will do. They do allow some younger males to be in the herd, but only if they continue to take on a submissive role. Should those males express an interest in mating they will be driven out of the herd.
http://www.hippoworlds.com/hippopotamus-social-structure/
Testosterone secretion, musth behaviour and social dominance in captive male Asian elephants
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8958836 Results


Male Testosterone Linked to High Social Dominance

Boys perceived as socially dominant by unfamiliar peers were found to have concurrently higher levels of testosterone than boys perceived as less socially dominant.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0890856709636352 Sexual Selection Theory

Sex Differences in Aggression in Real-World Settings:
Sexual selection theory (SST) locates the origins of greater male physical aggression in human evolutionary history, as a consequence
of unequal parental investment leading to greater male than female reproductive competition and, therefore, overt aggression (Trivers,
1972). From this principle, and from its observed consequences in the animal kingdom, the sex difference in human aggression is to be
expected.
http://empower-daphne.psy.unipd.it/userfiles/file/pdf/ARCHER-9.pdf
 

season

Well-Known Member
Neutering a dog will not change behavior problems. That's the job of the owner.


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season

Well-Known Member
If you want to be a responsible owner don't spay or neuter. Train it.


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Th0r

Well-Known Member
Why are you comparing wild animals and animals in captivity against domestic dogs?
You have to stop pushing cause you're starting to sound like a fanatic!
 

marke

Well-Known Member
Why are you comparing wild animals and animals in captivity against domestic dogs?
You have to stop pushing cause you're starting to sound like a fanatic!
have you ever kept any animals ??????? a "fanatic" ???? I think , well actually I don't know what to think ..............
 

teodora

Well-Known Member
your kidding , right ?
Well probably not. It is indeed the owners job to manage their dogs with or without balls - if they cant, then probably they have more dog than they can handle and thats clearly not the doggie's fault.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
It will terminate the dogs sex drive , sex drive is behind a bunch of dog problems , everybody should know that ?????????? have you ever had a tom cat , and tried to keep it in the house ?????? well it works the same in all animals , including dogs .........